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November 7, 2003Hip-Hop in the Middle EastUSA Today has taken notice of hip-hop's rising influence among youth in Israel. Just like in Cuba, South Africa, Brazil and elsewhere, seems like young people who have something to say are finding hip-hop the perfect medium to make their voice heard. Interestingly this case it is the chosen medium for both the left and the right, it would appear.. Israeli hip-hop takes on Mideast politicsPosted by jsmooth995 at November 7, 2003 1:30 PM Comments
this article from usa today portrays a distorted living here is a crazy paradox, hip hop started as a movment, as a voice and vehichle for the opressed. at some point in recent years, it has sadly been swallowed by giant corporations and, stirped from it's original message, turned into "easy to digest" pop. using it's freshness and image, to make himself credible and cool on the one hand, this then returns to the states, through a newspaper article, ganing even more "distortion", well. im just here to say, he is not. dj jazzy jeff was supposed to come here to give a set yesterday, but he cancelled... Posted by: Zo at November 7, 2003 4:46 PM All I gotta ask is... why don't y'all start resisting the draft? Even in America, we ditched the draft over 25 years ago. And we aren't exactly a progressive country. The only Israeli hip hop I wanna hear right now would be saying "Fuck Israel". That's just common sense, homie. Zionism is colonialism. No offense. I got love for all semitic peoples. Posted by: eric at November 7, 2003 7:04 PM As a matter of fact, i can understand that... the problem is, it's not that easy... do i agree with what israel is doing right now ? let me paint you a clearer picture. so even though many believe history to be a part of the past, and say "get over it", the same hatred that cost my grandmother her leg, just like the same hatred which once held a whip in it's hand, is now asking the dead prez for i.d's. the fact is, that even the analogy that i just made, is hard for you to accept, cuase you much rather see palastine as the analogy, and believe me when i say, that if it was up to me, you see, when bush wiped out afganistan and iraq, the point i'm trying to make, i have a mad grandma, and tommorow i might die becuase i took the bus. and yes, i know that you are against war, and with such ease you scream and point at israel but i ask you, where is my black panthers ? thank you, good night, and god bless america. Posted by: Zo at November 7, 2003 10:22 PM Zo... first of all, i think you are underestimating the deep ties between the U.S. and Israel. First of all, there are more Jews in the U.S. than in Israel. Second, our most powerful respected progressive activist is Noam Chomsky. He is both a Jew and highly critical of Palestine. Third, there are millions of people in this country who know exactly what is going on around the world. Unfortunately, we only make up a small percentage of our total population. Israel is a creation/colony of the U.S. You are right that Israel could be wiped off the Middle East, except for the fact that it has an extremely effective and sophisticated military-intelligence infrastructure. You may remember that Israel even infiltrated some of the highest levels of the CIA in the 1970s and 1980s. Israel also has a mandatory draft. The Israel/Palestine issue and anti-semitism are somewhat separate issues in my opinion. This is not to belittle anti-semitism. Anti-Semitism is alive and well. But Israeli colonialism only fuels anti-semitism. Listen, I respect you for putting your thoughts up here. Keep in mind that there are millions of Americans who also feel helpless and pissed off about what their country is doing. I would argue that we Americans are actually more powerless to make changes than Israelis. I know that may sound strange to you, but we are also a large country of immigrants. The difference between Israeli activism and U.S. activism is that we have no uniting factor, while Israel does. This is both Israel's strength and weakness. And, believe me... the world is watchig Israel -- not because it wants to see Jews get their butts kicked -- but we all want to see the situation come to a peaceful conclusion. Mind you, I blame Palestinians as much as Israelis. I think their is bloodthirst on both sides of the Green Line. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't take Black Panthers or Susan Sarandons. Rather, it takes MLKs and Gandhis. It takes people who are willing to go to jail for resisting the draft. It takes Palestinians who will risk their lives to show solidarity with Israeli peace activists. The Israeli government needs to come to its senses. And Hamas needs to distance itself from Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa, etc. If I were Israeli and had nowhere else to go, I would resist the draft plain and simple. And if there were a draft in the U.S., I would do the same. How bad are Israeli jails? Could they be any worse than U.S. jails? I have a lot of young Jewish friends here in the States, and almost all of them are furious at the Israeli government, just like you are. A lot of us here in the U.S. DO know what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. The problem in the U.S. is that we really are powerless to do anything about it. We're just a bunch of fucking immigrants who want to forget about the rest of the world. peace... Posted by: eric at November 8, 2003 7:19 AM :-) btw, i did resist the draft. Posted by: Zo at November 8, 2003 10:51 AM Rolling Stone had a great article earlier this year on hip-hop in Isreal (click on my name to see it). Hip-hop is actually bringing together Jews and Muslims over there. I wish the press would publish more stories like that. Hip-hip spreads so easily. I wonder what's the draw? What's make our culture so sticky, here and abroad? Posted by: Madison at November 8, 2003 10:32 PM It makes me sick hearing them people Abraham was the first Jewish settler God gave His Holy Land to the Canaanite Read up on your Bible. 22 Arab countries vs. 1 Jewish country Wake up and stop the HATE against ZION!! Praise the Lord! Posted by: Tawana at November 10, 2003 11:44 AM Tawana... I have some questions for you. How much do you know about what has happened over the last 50 years in Israel/Palestine? Do you know what the difference between Israel and Palestine is? And, finally, is Israel justified in all of its actions? Can Israel do any wrong in your eyes? If so... how? Thank you. Posted by: eric at November 10, 2003 5:38 PM There are also many Pro-Palestinian Arab hip-hop acts out there. MWR is a crew from Palestine who rap in Arabic about the oppression they face day to day. Check out there website for more infor and sounds: Posted by: Imran at December 5, 2003 1:06 PM one simple question, who own this land? arabs or jews? cuz even on ipc (http://www.ipc.gov.ps/, arab-islamic-terroristinian official internation press whatever) where they talked about "their" history you can see arab moslems NEVER had a country on JEWISH LAND, and JERUSALEM NEVER was a capital of ANY arab state, even the name "palestine" was given by romans, the Holy City was never mentioned in quran, not even ONE time... Posted by: me at December 6, 2003 2:04 AM one simple question, who own this land? arabs or jews? cuz even on ipc (http://www.ipc.gov.ps/, arab-islamic-terroristinian official internation press whatever) where they talked about "their" history you can see arab moslems NEVER had a country on JEWISH LAND, and JERUSALEM NEVER was a capital of ANY arab state, even the name "palestine" was given by romans, the Holy City was never mentioned in quran, not even ONE time... Posted by: me at December 6, 2003 2:06 AM You are all a bunch of dopes...all of you - ranging from the pro-Israel fools kill-all-the-arabs fools to the ignorant pseudo-leftist nazis who think that Israel is some colonial project...morons all of you...Israel is a country that represents the aspirations of Jewish self determination...plain and simple...the only place where Jews can determine a future for themselves by themselves...sadly many Arabs who lived there before '48 rejected a peaceful partition of the land and declared war against Israel in '48, and THIS led to their dispersal...it did not have to be that way...furthermore, NOBODY "gave" Israel to the Jews...Israel was formed by Jews in response to thousands of years of Christian oppresion and Islamic second class status for jews - learn your history for gods sake - the US was against it in '48, the Europeans had just killed six million jews...JEWS would have created a Jewish homeland had the UN voted for it or not...after 2000 years of being the scapegoats of a bunch of savages European Christians and Arab Muslims, the Jews finaly took power into their own hands...this does NOT say that what is happening now is injustice towards the Palestinians...in fact, there MUST be a Palestinian state in order for Zionism to achieve its true goal of a democratic Israeli nation, a homeland for Jews, but with equal rights for EVERYONE...the current government is garbage, but this does not mean that Israel itself does not have the absolute right to live in peace and security and as a Jewish state and homeland... Posted by: Truth at December 7, 2003 10:08 PM why did this conversation even evolve to politics? the truth is, how can you even talk about how israeli hip-hop turned into "easy to digest pop"? have you ever even heard it? have you ever looked at subliminal's lyrics? unlike american rap, most israeli rap doesn't talk all about bitches and hoes. israeli rap is very political. Subliminal doesn't spread hate. can you point toward one song of his that says something hateful against palestinians? i own his CD, and listened a couple of times to try and find something like the hate you were talking about. it wasn't there! jewish israeli rappers aren't really the ones spreading hate, you are! Posted by: Tali at December 9, 2003 4:45 PM why did this conversation even evolve to politics? the truth is, how can you even talk about how israeli hip-hop turned into "easy to digest pop"? have you ever even heard it? have you ever looked at subliminal's lyrics? unlike american rap, most israeli rap doesn't talk all about bitches and hoes. israeli rap is very political. Subliminal doesn't spread hate. can you point toward one song of his that says something hateful against palestinians? i own his CD, and listened a couple of times to try and find something like the hate you were talking about. it wasn't there! jewish israeli rappers aren't really the ones spreading hate, you are! Posted by: Tali at December 9, 2003 4:45 PM i dont get it! what the fuck is your problem! subliminal isnt dissing the arab ppl or anything they just say they like being an israelian and i dont see the problem! i like being a belgian so am i a racist or something??? no im not so i think you have issues.. you should look at things from the other angle not just YOUR angle. pffft you and your crappy site are dissing israel without knowing it. im not jewish or anything, im just OPENMINDED... you should try it! Posted by: evelyne (belgium) at December 12, 2003 1:28 PM There is nothing Israel could do in any of your eyes to justify ANYTHING it does. Anyone who can read and comprehend simple facts can see that Israel has tried time and time again to help and co-exist with the "Palestinians". Americans who think that Israel isn't justified should emigrate right now simply because the United States did the same damn thing to the Natives, except much harsher than Israel has. NO other country on this entire planet would have given a people like these (hateful, murderous, and seeking nothing but war and destruction) as many chances as Israel has. Israel has built Arabs schools, univrsties, you name it. Israel and the US offered to build two Palestinains cities in Jordan for the Palestinains at the end of the '67 war and they decline. Not becuase they didnt want it, but because they wanted to "throw the Jews into the sea". The only reasons someone WOULD NOT support Israel are the following: Posted by: unknown at December 15, 2003 12:21 AM where can i get your cd?? Posted by: emily at January 1, 2004 9:36 PM where can i get your cd?? Posted by: emily at January 1, 2004 9:36 PM Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. Posted by: Amon Eliza at January 20, 2004 12:48 PM Zionism is Colonialism? Well someone's certainly been having his share of palestinian propaganda fed to him. Zionism has achieved it's goal. Jews have a state, and Jews can go to it freely. Colonialism is basically a variant of expansionism. Israel has constantly given back land where it thought it would bring peace. The Sinai was returned to Egypt for example. In 2000, at Camp David, Ehud Barak offered 97% of the West Bank & the Gaza strip to Arafat for a Palestinian State, at the outset (before negotiations started)! If Israel were truly colonialist, they would not have returned land so many times. Eric, stop trying to slip in sly propaganda or saying things like all i wanna hear right now is fuck israel, when you say things like i love semitic peoples, because that's clearly bullshit, and because ur just helping promote the hate. Btw, Truth had a good post. Oh, and to those of you who hate Sharon... why don't you all read his autobiography to get an idea of the man. Oh, and as to expansionist... I seem to recall it was the Arabs who tried to push the Jews into the sea in 48 and take the land. Posted by: IE at February 15, 2004 10:33 PM Btw... Subliminal makes good music :) Posted by: IE at February 15, 2004 10:35 PM If Israel is not a colonial state, then what is your definition of a colonial state? Prior to the establishment of Israel in 1948, Palestine was a British colony. Tired of dealing with an increasingly volatile Arab resistance to both Zionists and the British, Britain asked the UN to help out with the situation. The result was a PROPOSED partition of Palestine which gave 56.47% of Palestine to the Jewish state and 43.53% to the Arab state, with an international enclave around Jerusalem. At this time, Jews only accounted for 1/3 of the population (up from 4% at the turn of the century!). Contrary to popular belief, the Resolution was rejected by Palestinians and NEVER implemented by the UN. 33 nations voted for the partition and 23 rejected or abstained. After the failed Resolution, Britain essentially handed over control of Palestine to the Zionists. Whether you want to call this Zionism or just plain old colonialism is not important to me. After 1400 years of Arab domination of the Palestine area, are you gonna tell me that Zionists and Israelis (two different things) has been completely justified in its colonization of Palestine? I will ask again: are you trying to tell me that the Israeli government has committed no wrongs in this conflict???? If you would like to check my facts, you can do so at the BBC website, which I hope is authoritative enough to squelch all the bullshit propaganda people like IE are spouting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/ The other thing -- IE -- is where have I made any "hateful" comments as you accuse?? Unlike you, I have no personal stake in this conflict. I simply want people to understand what is REALLY going on. The only reason Israel is where it is, is that people in the U.S. are ignorant of what is really going on over there. Posted by: eric at February 15, 2004 11:51 PM IE, you ought to read some history yourself there, buddy. Sharon is a nationalist goon along the lines of Milosevic in Serbia. He's a war criminal and a corrupt politician who ought to be thrown out of office and into the nearest handy prison. He is an affront to the forces of moderation and civility that make up a large portion of Israeli society. Jews lived peacefully in Palestine for thousands of years, yes. Along with scores of other ethnic groups who have yet to answer the call of god to cleanse it of all the others. Problem is that the British, who maintained the region as part of their collapsing empire, found zionism a handy way to releive a bit of their own centuries of guilt, gratify some rather wealthy consituents and solve one of the problems of their collapsing empire: put a bunch of "Europeans" in there to take care of the natives. Lord Balfour, for example, plainly stated that he didn't even intend to ask the 700,000 Palestinians living in the area at the time what they thought of the relocated European jews. The Poles, Russians, Germans, Ethiopians and the rest of the cannon fodder the zionists have imported in the past 15 years have as much to do with the region as the Irish. They are colonizers, plain and simple. Now, that's life, let's say. Israel is there to stay, just like the Africans were sold into slavery and the native Americans were hounded to cultural and near literal extinction. So be it. God will have the final word on that. But why do they insist on crushing every last breath out of the Palestinian people until suicide bombing seems a wise option to an 18 year old girl? That's not propaganda that does that, that's humiliation, pure and simple. Generations of loss, disenfranchisement and marginalization. Look at a map of the apartheid wall and pick out where all the wells are (on the israeli side) where all the best farm land is (on the israeli side) and where the borders used to be. Look at the strangled economies of Bethlehem and the other Christian cities. Look at the people living in concrete block tenaments while Americans from fucking Brooklyn steal their land and homes in the middle of the night. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. Tell me things are going to get better for those people if the world doesn't finally put its foot down and draw a line in the sand for Israel. This is a sin we'll all pay the price for one day - sooner or later, judgement will come down on us. We send more money to support Israel's military every year (about $5 billion) than we send to the entire continent of Africa. Go buy this trash if you want - it's one of three: appropriated garbage, cultural theft or plain banality. Posted by: micah at February 16, 2004 6:38 PM wow....and i peeped this thread cause of the hip hop ....holy shit! (lol).....i stepped into a timebomb -excuse the distasteful pun.....after all these ARE only words.........if any of you cats feel so strongly about these issues, especially the academic (yeah, we see you, quoting the racist,fascist, inadequate bbc -that fake institution should no way represent the people of britain-its a damn joke-i wouldn't trust those execs as far as i could hurl them from the top floor of bbc house-nuff hidden agendas-like the rest of the 'media'), you should make some moves....talk is cheap......the palestinian-sympathisers should learn hebrew and get out into israel...the zionist-sympathisers need to learn arabic and get over to the palestinian-territory (ouch!)......mix that ish up....israelis -go f*ck some arab chicks and have babies...and vice-versa.....thats how you will change shit!....unfortunately i cant....i'm promised to a black norwegian woman from cardiff...i've got enough on my plate.......word up to everyone that took part in this discussion ...this is what its all about....get it off your chests and maybe someone in passing will be motivated enough to make a difference.....keep on Posted by: hate is love at February 18, 2004 11:47 PM Everything I said could easily be checked against other sources. And as far as the BBC... get over it. There ain't no such thing as a 100% reliable source. You ALWAYS have to double-check, no matter what the source. The problem with Israel is that the facts speak for themselves. Nobody says it's simple NOW. But the history of Israel is plain to see. Where we go from here is the difficult part. Once you're in the family... it's hard to extract yourself. Posted by: eric at February 19, 2004 3:56 PM yes...eric the academic owns up...we saw you tho!....such an academic thing to say, 'there aint no such thing as a reliable source, you have to double check'....did your 'dean' teach you that...lol.....its all good tho, i'm just twistin you.......but....:'which I hope is authoritative enough to squelch all the bullshit propaganda people like IE are spouting'...you hoped wrong!...perhaps there are some other holes in the ship, elsewhere...n'amean....whateva, bill hicks has is right.....f*kin nuke everyone...bunch of losers the lot of you....peace......love is hate Posted by: hate is love at February 19, 2004 10:13 PM Bill Hicks! Yeah, you get props for that. Guy had a mean beatbox too. Guy was pretty hopeful though. You can tell he really cared a lot, even though he played it off. That said, I'm still trying to figure out if you are a provocateur, a saboteur... or just an asshole. take it personally you nuke loving hate mongrel ;) Posted by: eric at February 19, 2004 11:40 PM you give hate a bad name... ...bad name. Posted by: eric at February 19, 2004 11:41 PM eric, you guessed right...i'm all three.. peas Posted by: hate is love at February 20, 2004 10:30 PM Anyone who blows themselves up is not right, those who seek to destroy those who blow themselves up are righteous Because: Zionists/Jews(We are one) protect our children, while Hammas hides within theirs' which is why the Israelis/Jews seek to expel the darkness out of Israel. A few years ago i wouldn't have dared say what i just said but from what i've seen i've just decided 2 hell with the peace plan cos how the hell can we ever hav peace with terrorists like Araf*t, and with all the hatred in the World i've stopped giving a f*ck about third person perspective in regards to Israel Posted by: yuri at April 4, 2004 9:45 AM Mind you, I blame Palestinians as much as Israelis. I think their is bloodthirst on both sides of the Green Line. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't take Black Panthers or Susan Sarandons. Rather, it takes MLKs and Gandhis. It takes people who are willing to go to jail for resisting the draft. If an MLK were to develop in that area, he would meet the same fate MLK did, only with a cruise missile. Posted by: DJ Orion at April 26, 2004 6:58 PM Mind you, I blame Palestinians as much as Israelis. I think their is bloodthirst on both sides of the Green Line. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't take Black Panthers or Susan Sarandons. Rather, it takes MLKs and Gandhis. It takes people who are willing to go to jail for resisting the draft. If an MLK were to develop in that area, he would meet the same fate MLK did, only with a cruise missile. Posted by: DJ Orion at April 26, 2004 6:58 PM Truth be told, "palestine" is a myth. Mever has been a palestime, it's a Roman corruption of the word Paleshtim/philistine given to the the Land Israel after the 2nd century revolts by Israel against the Romans. There were no longer Paleshtim/philistines living at that time. Not any today either. They are Arabs/Semetic. The Philistines were from Ham. read up your Biblical history. So, either Israel the land is for Israel the people given by the G-d of Israel and all creation, or you gotta throw out the whole Bible/G-D thing altogether. No, Israel is not colonialism. Don't forget the 100,000's Jews who fled arab/Muslim lands for their lives to live in present Israel. What about their justice!? There was NOWHERE for Jews to go other than the historic Jewish homeland. Even USA turned away holocaust victims in WW2. The arabs in the Holy Land have many countries to go to. This is spiritual warfare. Islam and it's false god of the Qu'ran (not the same as the Bible) are against G-D's plan. The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. The enemies don't want it. But ultimately won't stop it. Shalom salam peace Posted by: Shaul at April 27, 2004 3:36 AM Jews,you need stick to trickery and trying to rob rappers of their money. Historically speaking, you are a weak hearted people, don't try to rap. Hip Hop is for those with nuts not for the children of rich kids. Stick to buying the music and imitating something you could never touch. Posted by: soliman at May 27, 2004 2:27 PM Jews,you need stick to trickery and trying to rob rappers of their money. Historically speaking, you are a weak hearted people, don't try to rap. Hip Hop is for those with nuts not for the children of rich kids. Stick to buying the music and imitating something you could never touch. Posted by: soliman at May 27, 2004 2:27 PM "I had a great answer to anti-Semites. Humanitarian consistency requires that my people offer all these gifts to all people of the world. You want to be angry with us? Be angry with us! Posted by: Tov at June 5, 2004 2:48 AM damn!! i dont know how this hip-hop thing got to politics but u know they have alot to do with each other. aight, salam Posted by: maima at June 6, 2004 4:15 PM Can anyone let me know how I can buy Subliminal's CDs in the US? Posted by: Steve at July 23, 2004 10:10 AM OK, I know this thread has been dead for months, but there are some things I have to say. ZO: When you hear about Jews being gassed in Europe, do you ask what they did wrong? When you remember the expulsion on the 9th of Av of the Jews from Spain, do you ask what we did wrong? Or the Romans massacring the people of Jerusalem? Or Eastern European pogroms in the early 20th centure? Why, then, when people blow themselves up to kill us do you ask what we did? There will always be Jew-hatred in the world, it is our burden. It defies explanation. ISRAEL IS NOT A COLONY OF THE USA!!! This is so stupid, I shouldn't even respond, but I will. It was the BRITISH mandate of Palestine pre-Israel, not the US mandate. Solimin: IF THE JEWS ARE SUCH A TIMID PEOPLE, HOW DID WE KICK THE SHIT OUT OF 5 MIGHTY ARAB ARMIES, INCLUDING THE WORLD-FEARED ARAB LEGION, BEFORE WE HAD A FORMAL ARMED FORCE? And nobody else fought in that war; after WWII, nobody wanted to get involved. Jewish toughness goes all the way back to the Zealots of Massada. Read a fuckin' book, why don'tcha?
Israel can and has done wrong, I will always admit that. But the vast majority for the plight of modern-day Palestinian disenfranchisement and angst is the fault of the PLO and neighboring Arab states which assign Palestinians permanent refugee status instead of letting them integrate themselves into Jordanian, or Syrian, or Lebanese society. Israel has a right to exist, and that is so obvious it shouldn't require stating, but there it is. ALL THAT SAID, Subliminal rocks, and I want to know how to order his CD's. Shalom, Salaam and peace to everyone! Am Yisrael Chai!!!!!!!! -BPUSJ Posted by: BigProudUDJew at July 29, 2004 9:49 PM To the morally confused libral hip hop heads: You all have no idea what you're saying. You've been taught that the government is the number one enemy of our country and that we must always look at "BOTH SIDES" of any conflict. Both sides,..YES, but we have to clarify something. Let's talk about the Israeli-Arab conflict. There seems to be this morally confused thinking in leftists that claims that "both sides are wrong" and it's a "cycle" of violence. When was the last time you saw an Israeli soldier plant a bomb in a huge party or wedding or club or coffee shop and killed scores of women and children. I remember the last time it happened with a palestinian terrorist murderer. I remember that it's been 8 months since the last suicide bombing thanks to improved security and the new security fence that isn't even done. The thing you people on the left have to understand is that when israelis kill innocent palestinians they don't do it on purpose. It's because terrorists hide behind civilians in order to make it seem that way. When israel kills Hamas members it is like "OH CRAP WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING? OH THEY'RE ASKING FOR IT!" That's expecting the least from liberal minded folk. Remember that "cycle of violence"? Well let me rename it. It's called the FAILED PALESTINIAN INTIFADA. FAILED! That's right, it's nearing over half a year that there hasn't been a suicide bombing in Israel. Israel continues to target terrorists, and has not let down its gaurd. Why haven't the terrorists reaked havoc in the streets of israel, why hasnt there been scores of israelies killed? Posted by: nadav at August 20, 2004 3:44 PM Man, there's a lot of racist stuff on this thing. Anyone who thinks they have a definitive answer to this problem is deluded. And Hip Hop doesn't have a solution either. Subliminal thinks the solution is blind love for Israel, Hadag Nahash thinks its criticizing the government, but most Israeli Hip Hop (and yea, there are bitch ho groups like HaYisraelim) feels it just has to be true. And sorry to Soliman who thinks Jews are rich, deceptive rats, but rap is just a way of speaking your mind, and that's what most Israeli rappers are trying to do. Posted by: arie at September 8, 2004 5:47 PM i don't care what you guys say.... subliminal rocks~!!!!! and so does Israel~!!!!!! Posted by: giggles at September 17, 2004 9:21 PM excuse me..... can anyone tell me why in one of subliminals songs it says and i quote "efo elokim" "where is g-d" how can u say this is zyonist when subliminal is basicaly saying that g-d is forgetting about his ppl.. the ppl that he has kept alive for so long. how is this song "zionist" Posted by: IsRaEltanyaOrThOdOx at October 10, 2004 3:20 AM IsRaEltanyaOrThOdOx - You've got to be kidding me! 1. You can be fervently Zionist yet have no belief or opinion about G-d. Herzl, Weizmann, Meir, Dayan, Ben-Gurion... these people founded modern Zionism on entirely secular ideals. 2. Asking "efo elokim" after a terrorist attack is a natural response for even the most faithful person. What does asking "where is g-d" have anything to do with your belief that israel is the jewish homeland?? anyway, as an american i like subliminal and dag hanhash. they are not mutually exclusive. love israel passionately but question authority. i do the same thing in this country. i love america, hang a flag on my wall, but don't like the administration and disagree with its policies. where's the inconsistency. Strong and Liberal Rules! Posted by: jeremy at October 22, 2004 12:23 AM jeremy, ima zionist one hundred percent... but what i dont understand is how we can call ourselves that if we dont support theadore herzl...the "father" of zionism. the efo elokim thing.. ur rght i was wrong... but get back 2 me about the zionist thing... after all israel was created by secular jews... Posted by: IsRaEltanyaOrThOdOx at October 26, 2004 6:19 PM JEREMY, Posted by: IsRaEltanyaOrThOdOx at October 26, 2004 6:23 PM I am an American Jew. I have never been to Israel and I will probably not go there anytime soon, though it has always been my dream. I love my my birthplace, America. I also love my homeland, Israel. Israel represents all that I stand for in life. My body may lie in Chicago, but my soul is in Jerusalem. Poltics are important, but there is more to Israel than that. Israel is a statement. It says, "You pushed me, but I didn't fall. You hurt me and I survived the pain. You tried to destroy me but I lived." Israel is like a punching bag. The world hits it but it bounces back. Year after year it is abused but always recovers. One of these days, no one is going to hurt Israel anymore. One of these days Israel will be at peace. One of these days. 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