October 6, 2004

Edwards-Cheney, Please Tell Me What To Think

Relying on a shaky webstream for the debate last night, it was impossible for me to properly assess the outcome.. so I looked to blogville for answers, but they only brought more confusion.

The (moderate) lefties at Pandagon thought Cheney dominated, at least in the first half.. but the (moderate) righty Andrew Sullivan diagnosed the VP as "roadkill." Come on people, make up your minds! I need someone to tell me what my opinion is supposed to be!

From what I heard and halfway saw I thought Edwards was ok, but could have been much stronger (about what I thought of Kerry), while Cheney exceeded expectations by failing to have a heart attack, and not reminding anybody too much of Darth Vader.

I did enjoy Cheney's humbled silence after Edwards ran off Dick's despicable voting record in Congress (He voted against the MLK holiday! He voted against getting Mandela out of jail!! He voted to outlaw puppies and rainbows!!!)

The only thing I can say without a shred of doubt is the moderator sucked ass. AJ and Free could have run things better than that. Or better yet, next time we should get Wendy Williams.

So, my esteemed readers, can you please tell me who won?

EDIT: Slate is running down how Edwards fell short, while a commenter on Pandagon points out a sweet Cheney gaffe: Instead of inviting viewers to factcheck.org for the truth about his record, Cheney gave the wrong URL and sent everybody to factcheck.com, which redirects to George Soros' vehemently anti-bush homepage. D'oh!

EDIT 2: Let me see if I've got this straight.. Cheney's explanation of the American casualties in Iraq is: "Sure, over 1,000 Americans have died, but hey, a thousand of our Iraqi allies have died too!" Oh, yeah that makes me feel much better.

Posted by jsmooth995 at October 6, 2004 2:05 AM | TrackBack

Comments

Edwards by a hair. Cheney couldn't reply to important issues, and bullshited his way through economic talks, but all of that aside he was strong. However Edwards just attacked, man. He was in Cheney's grill about 9/11, Afghanistan/Saddam relations, and even Cheney's daughter. Still, Edwards fumbled at times but kept it gully while firing missiles at C's dome to avoid people noticing his shortcommings.

If Cheney wasn't obviously full of so much shit - calling people "sacrifices," in Iraq, discussing medical malpractice instead of economic issues, and telling stories - he'd win. But that ain't the case now is it?

Posted by: Milo at October 6, 2004 6:23 AM

I think some people were impressed by Cheney because, relative to Bush's performance, he was masterful. but, that's not necessarily saying much.

Edwards was debating "the man who is president," and he did his thing in my opinion. it was a VP candidate, versus an incumbent VP who is, in essence, the Commander in Chief--a shrewd, intelligent man, notwithstanding his moral character. This was a far tougher task than Kerry has debating inept-ass Bush.

he (Edwards) was unrelenting, and kept specifically referencing Cheney's inaccuracies/contradictions. almost nothing Cheney said went unchallenged.

the only times he took some shots were when Cheney pointed out his poor attendance record in The Senate, and when the subject of his experience or lack thereof came up. he didn't do well allaying concerns over his untested status.

and style/personality points..no contest.

Posted by: Geez at October 6, 2004 1:18 PM

First of all Cheney came across as an arrogant, couldn't be bothered with this shit type of guy. Edwards was much more animated and interested in getting out his message. Cheney's whole position was attack and discredit rather than respond to the substance of the debate. He was also demeaning at times to the moderator. Finally, he at times appeared exhausted by Edwards constant barrage which was masterful at times..."He voted against Meals on Wheels!" Finally, Edwards left the choice of who's telling the truth up to the American people rather than dictating the "facts" as this administration often does. I think the medias attempt to portray these debate in an even handed manner take away from the fact that both have been soundly won by the Kerry/Edwards ticket. Also, Edwards one mistake was by outing Cheney's daughter like that. All in all though, Cheney showed his nasty evil self and it wasnt pretty.

Posted by: Yojimbot at October 6, 2004 2:38 PM

I think it's really important to analyze the debates as Regular Joe Schmoe might in terms of simple body language, intonation, and command of authority. You know, it depends upon what people want to see in these political figureheads: a fatherlike figure? a go-get-um sharpshooter? etc.

As you mentioned before, in your analysis of the first round of Presidential debates, their posturing is really important. And each of their styles of dealing with confrontation completely exemplified their civilian resume: Cheney stood firm and spoke, condescendingly, like a good CEO of a multi-billion dollar company; Edwards suckerpunched, jabbed, and darted around like a trial lawyer shark. But, I think that both were equivalently fierce in their techniques.

I think their different styles made it difficult to discern who won. Every single one of my blogging buddies has something different to say. Given that, maybe it's a tie?

Posted by: Jen B at October 6, 2004 7:15 PM

A little blogwh*ring on my behalf...

I collected a bunch of quotes from the Bush/Cheney campaign in 2000 about distortions in the debates.

Take a look for yourself at all of them...

Bush's running mate, former Defense Secretary Dick Cheney, said he was "puzzled and saddened to learn" that Gore had misrepresented his actions during the 1998 wildfires in Texas.

"Al Gore has described these presidential debates as a job interview with the American people," Cheney said. "I've learned over the years that when somebody embellishes their resume in a job interview, you don't hire them."

IOKIYAR

Posted by: justmy2 at October 6, 2004 10:33 PM

I had some thoughts on the subject- too lengthy to post here, but I can provide a link.

In short: While we were all watching, Edwards did something few men could have accomplished- he very subtly and very graciously forced Dick Cheney to chose between his party and his family. It knocked the wind right out of Cheney.

Posted by: patrick at October 7, 2004 10:53 AM

from the coverage i've read, i was the only one who cared (besides the crabby moderator), but no one answered a single question the entire time. "before i answer that question, i'd like to go back to a point the vice president made three questions ago..." i've never seen a debate quite like it. by the end i could barely pay attention enough to figure out who won.
but on the body language front: it was tough to catch, but cheney's hands were fidgety and nervous. by the end edwards had the alpha male vibe going, and made cheney circle the entire room to shake hands with him.

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