Jeremy Parker's "Kill Whitie" Parties in Williamsburg

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your explication of irony in the hipster context is brilliant

Yep, that's it right there...by the way, Oliver Wang sparked an interesting discussion of this over at Soulstrut.com . I can't figure out how to link directly but you can go to forums>crate digging revealed and look for the thread called "Why White hipsters are wankers"

Prometheus 6 is a personal inspiration of mine.

Sometimes people go way too far in their need to be cellophane cool. This type of open, unabashed prejudice should disgust all hip hop lovers.

Anyway, I also wrote some stuff on this article; check it out at http://www.jameslambjr.com/2005/08/whos-victim.html.

Keep up the great work; this is an amazing site.

Prometheus 6 is a personal inspiration of mine.

By the way, this is a perfect example of "acting white" ...

Williamsburg makes me want to vomit! As a White guy I can see the angle the hipsters try to play. I think there are better ways to promote a party rather than making a mockery of white hatred. It just stirs feelings of resentment that many fight every day of their lives to ignore. I would like to see this same party in East New York. I liked Williamsburg before it was a rip-off and before it was NYCs beatnick capital... Hipsters in my eyes fight a false struggle - if you come from a nice background, why do you want to live grungy???

Jesus Christ, Jay... the irony thing... man, Aina was right about you.

Well, well, well done.

Im not feeling greenpoint or williamsburg for that matter. a true story here.. i was on the L train at bedford avenue and some chick was talking to her friend and said.. and i quote "i've never seen soo many black people before"

now im not tryin to make her the face of williamsburg/greens points but my point is this... you have a lot of people that are way out of touch with reality and the real world and thats why a party like this is going on and people actually think its a cool thing.

on a more serious and perhaps ironic note... its seems like every time i get of the L train at Bedford avenue there is somebody tryin to throw some information in my hand about how they are tryin' to turn the area into a more high rent area with the new condos/co-ops going up, etc.. (you know the re-doing of the waterfront, etc)

every other day i hear somebody out there by the L train sayin' save the area... save hour rents from going up! dont allow the rich to move in because the landlords are going to force us out with high rents..

well well well... i just find this funny because i wonder what these people had to say when the first moved into the area which use to be a very heavy pureto rican/spanish area.. but once those little manhattan run-aways came to the area... the rents went up and a lot of the old timers had to move out.

I dont know.. just my 2cents.

-DJ LROCK (MEDINA)

Yo thanks for dropping the comment.

Yeah, I can't believe people are defending this type of behavior. I would stay away from this week's "Kill Whitey" party. The article has been passed around and people are not happy. Expect things to go down...

This just proves that rasicm and lack of basic tolerance is still alive and even prevalent throughout "cultured" society. A lot of older white people won't question this type of behavior because these kids are generally from good homes, are college educated, and have stable jobs. It's sad to know that some of these said hipsters will grow up to be 'leaders' in society.

It'll be interesting to see the editorial response to this article in the Washington Post on Monday.

I have too much to say about this story because it conjures up many personal observations from over the years (- particularly from my experience as an inner-city New Yorker going to university in the Mid-West surrounded by white privilege). But instead I'm going to keep it brief. From the photos it looks like just a bunch of soft, post-college kids who moved to New York after school. I wouldn't call those kids hipsters. That's what old outsiders would call them. They are just dressing in a uniform trying to come off as alternative. It's a kind of off-the-rack Urban Outfitters pre-fabricated identity. (Take that you sucker shook ones!) That's not hip. Generic white kids dress like that these days. You could go to any mall in America and come out looking like that. New York isn't the same as it was when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's. N.Y. was hard, and you had to watch your back. When you travelled outside of N.Y. the first questions people asked were - "Is it safe?" and "Have you been mugged?" Over the last twenty years the city's gotten much safer, and I'd have to say softer. Because it's safe, kids from all these dipsh*t places move to N.Y. and think of it as their own playground where they can act however they want without any constraints. They don't have the baggage or the memories of New York the way it was, and they don't follow the un-written rules of respect and self-preservation that we grew up with. In the last year the New York Times has had several articles about recent transplants to N.Y. who don't use common sense and end up getting got. When I see people like those pictured in the story I want to bring the pain. It's offensive on many levels, but also because they've never had to deal with the harsh realities that we did. New York isn't your friend's house party in college or your safe little campus. It's sad that we're giving it so much time because it's just going to blow up his image and give notoriety to some smalltime, smalltown loser.

also by the way, great blog.

The Washington Post: “The Whitie We are Trying to Kill.”

On August 26, 2005, The Washington Post published Deejay's Appeal: 'Kill The Whiteness Inside': an article describing the party Kill Whitie as an all white scene that’s attempting to appropriate blackness. MSNBC, as well as other national publications also ran the story. The founders of Kill Whitie, including co-promoter, Lil Rae Rae, co-deejay Sha na na na, and choreographer, da Wondaho, all women of color, sat down to appropriate a little culture of their own over dumplings and noodles. The topic of the conversation was their absence from the Post’s article. The distraught, but not discouraged, Pumpsta listened as Sha na na na stated:

“This is bull-shit, we both dined with Michelle Garcia from The Washington Post, drank wine, she was bumming cigarettes off me. How can you talk to someone for hours and then pretend that [Sha na na na] merits no mention.”

Lil Rae Rae jumps in. “What did you expect? It’s The Washington Post.”

“I was the only one in the article, how could I be doing this by myself, we all started this together.” Pumpsta adds.

Wondaho shakes her head in disgust. “Man it’s just another black voice lost”

Lil Rae Rae concludes. “They want to know what Kill Whitie is, they’ll never know because they’re the whitie we’re trying to kill.”



In an infantile act to create racial boundaries The Washington Post omitted truths, attempting to achieve the obscure angel they desire. It is questionable that the Post would choose to run such a fraudulent article in the Nation section, when there are so many more prominent acts of racial bias that should be addressed. There is no reason to travel all the way to Brooklyn to witness the whitewashing of this country. Perhaps the Washington post should focus their attention on the Whities closer to home.

when there are so many more prominent acts of racial bias that should be addressed.

...which is to say that THIS act of racial bias is small enough to be ignored?

if you've got to gripe about "kill whitie" than may i suggest that you get a grip.there are multiple layers to be considered here. evolutions in musical culture and art spring from slow tectonic mashes of different tribes of peoples being pushed into each others worlds. by the use of the word "tribe" i mean much finer subdivisions of taste(in music and art) within all races as well as gay and straight. every one knows that punk in britain was very much influenced by the arrival of an immigrant carribean community at the time. a war of (culture)appropriation between the haves and the have nots is one of the hallmarks of the moment of time that we "exist" in. our human experience is part of a timeline of things very ancient walking backwards into realms unknown of the future. its the artists job to mix the whole mess of life into the absurdity that it is and stick right back in our faces. any momentary tilt in reality produced through human creativity adds to a spark of possibilty of perhaps an unforseen branch or direction of culture. this is to be nurtured at all times. it is at kill whitie parties where i have observed some of these larger cultural issues coming to play......myself as a long term scene hopper having checked out the rise and fall of many creative scenes(both underground and mainstream) in nyc in the last 14 years.......so connect the dots as you wish.....also regarding the use of "kill whitie" its really just seems like they are takin' the piss.....everybodies so judgemental of eachother but thats what corporate america wants right?.....to divide us against ourselves..to evolve into a society against itself.....so rules can be created to "protect us against ourselves".....and so on. at the end of the day look at your self in the mirror and say "i am an idiot". we have no idea what we are doing here in this life we find ourselves in.....divided we stand. we are all pawns in the matrix.....breakout.... reach towards your instinct...it knows more than washington post does.....

It's not about gradations in musical taste...aren't you playing the same popular hip-hop? If this was about gradations in musical taste, you'd be creating your own, and everything would be cool...we could just say that's hipster, not hip-hop.

But you're not creating anything new. What you're doing looks like mockery. And KNOWING it looks like mockery to the people that inspired your party, you don't care...more than don't care, you defend your right to offend.

Sorry, that's how I see your defense of "Kill Whitie."

All reminds me of Al Jolson

Wow. Nice way to start off my monday morning. What puts it over the edge for me are the flyers proclaiming free entry with a bucket of chicken. I'm still sorta on the fence about this, I'll admit. I could explain but I don't have the time right now.

this shit is OFFENSIVE and backwards.

and YES i DO get to speak solely on the fact that i'm a black woman- too bad for those of you who are still thrashing around in your hip-hop-loving-but-i'm-still-white limbos.

pumpsta and his Uncle Tom sidekick should be ashamed. Most especially for their "black ass" fliers. If I ever saw a white person distributing those things I would give them a severe exercise in perpetuating the Angry Black Woman stereotype.

oh and kill whitie's little insert about how the Man is bringing him down because the newspaper left out his black associate is hilarious to me. if you think she at all legitimizes your endeavour than you're still just as stupid and racist as i pegged you to be when i found out about this "party".

there's a night called big pimpin like this in toronto, only it's also a (overwhelmingly white) queer night. i don't know- folks have told me when it kicked off it was different, but when i went it was a similar gross-out scene. white people thinking they were soooooo wild and crazy for eating the other, surrounded by a bunch of folks who looked just like them. the worst thing was that the promoters got a lot of press where they claimed they were the first queer+ hiphop night in t.o., which is bullshit because there's been queer of color hiphop and dancehall nights going on for years in the city. but it's just like that girl in the article who thought the 'regular' hiphop clubs were too hardcore for her to feel 'safe to be freaky'- these idiots want to appropriate whatever they want but hold on to their little white safe zone at the same time, where they can mock the culture they claim to love and understand so much.

Damn, my poor neighborhood is getting slaughtered here. As a native on my toes, very f*ckin carefully I stand on the fence as to what's happening....Some of the gentrified change is good and some of it is just off the wall as they story stated above. I mean during what period if not that of the late would someone from this neighborhood be able to get a taste of the great music scene happening w/o venturing to the city. Just 2 weeks ago Prince Paul, Geology earlier this year the Brooklyn Hip Hop festival.. and that's just in the genre of hiphop. There's tons of shit always going on. The neighborhood itself has generally improved in the past decade. If you attribute it to ppl actually giving a f*ck and taking caring of business while mainting a mom and pops culture and blackballing your corporate chains then it's all good...but then the natives have to compete with the generating revenue and the constant rent hikes is inevitable......so it becomes a double edge sword. OK I'm swaying off topic.

This Kill Whitie or Whitley (Different World) depending on whose spining is definetly blatent racist exclusion/blackface bullshit if only for the bucket of fried chicken shit discount being advertised on the flyer...how can't any of you muthaf*kas not see this.

("It's about being nasty, people come to grind on each other," said Casady, 23. "It's like friends being sexual with each other."

Casady was raised in Santa Barbara, Calif., but quickly notes her worldliness by listing the cities where she has lived along the trail to Brooklyn. A regular Kill Whitie partygoer, she tried the conventional (that is, non-hipster) hip-hop clubs but found the men "really hard-core." In this vastly whiter scene, Casady said that "it's a safe environment to be freaky.")

What's worse is the whole cliquish culture of sheltered trust fund barhopping Williamsburg party patrons who commune at the location because of the generally safe enclave provided. Who probablly do not give a F*ck of the latent meaning behind a Kill Whitie party. I'm pretty sure these drunk m/f don't care to kill the whiteness inside, probably feel they don't have to kill it because they've brought that special token friend with them. From my past ventures to this place, it is pretty cliquish and there are very little intentions of mingling with the natives whom do happen to stumble in.

You want a safe environment to get freaky in?? THEN GO HOME or better yet have your hardcore hippie fun loving worldly ass deal with the variety or "adversity".

What's ironic is that we know that the post article and blog coverage has raised it's awareness and curiosity. I'm draggin my ass to the next "Kill Whitie Jammie Jam" if only to kill the MAN himself (ok maybe not). Just this time I'm providing some instant shade up in this piece.

WHOSE DOWN?

Someone call Luke and tell em to bring some real rump shakin VMA bishes with him.

I've been planning to be there this wednesday, Pez.

P.S.

For a real party with better music everyone should just go catch the Together Brothers @ Black Betty every friday!

Is this every Wednesday? Or just a monthly Jam? If it is I'll be there mos def.

I'm actually planning on dropping by there tommorrow... Jared of TSL spins some great rarities there.

ok. in defense of.. the Avenue D album is pretty dope though. in the sort of self-aware pro-female hypersexuality a la Peaches meets Splack Pack (with a side of Le Tigre-lite) or something but no less booty-shaking bass heavy funkiness.. and the live act (with trapeze!) in Greenpoint a little while ago was good too. no "fried chicken" on the flyer by the way and (save for the race-baiting title of course. and knowing nothing about it, thought it was just some silly one-off..) seemed harmless enough: people of every persuasion getting down to the sounds of good ol' electro-booty-bounce-ghetto-techno-bass. but the beats aside, fashion attrocities were in full effect (knowingly, of course) with the entire scene teetering on eyeroll-worthy but the intentions seemed genuinely: Let's Dance!!!!

perhaps more pr/marketing miscalculation than ill will.

Hey all -

Glad to see that other people who are pissed about this are heading there tomorrow night. I've got a group of pissed off people of color going... if folks want to get organized with us, drop me a line.

Sure, it can easily be seen as a bit ironic and over the top, but the Kill Whitie night comes from a love of the music and culture, not a mockery. People are so easily offended. My advice is to relax. If white girls want a safe place to dance to rap music, then what's the problem with that? I think there are more pressing issues to be blogging about.

Backing up what Mat typed, you couldn't be more on point. Alot of this looks like a general disgust with people from outside of NY who enjoy the fruits NY has to offer in this day and age, without living through the times back when you could be victimized anywhere you were. Back when you had to watchout for some nut with a bat, ready to crack your skull open. Or young ladies getting tossed off various rooftops. Times have certainly changed and people are getting too comfortable. When I used to ride the train, I could tell who's from NY and who's from somewhere else just by looking in their eyes. New Yorkers are more careful. In anycase, this type of party is a clear display of how comfortable and lackadasical these so called hipsters are. They should step back and see how lucky they are to even be able to walk the streets of Williamsburg Bklyn, before shaking the delicate foundation of tolerance that New Yorkers developed over this last decade.

"perhaps more pr/marketing miscalculation than ill will."

I agree it seems to come from obliviousness rather than malice. But I don't think that makes it any less worthy of interrogation.. if anything that makes it more worthy.

It's just people having a good time. Get off their fucking backs, you miserable cunts!

...but Kill Whitie night comes from a love of the music and culture, not a mockery.

Are you telling me "Free admission with a bucket of fried chicken" is not a mockery?

My advice is to relax.

That's always easy to say when you're not the one on the receiving end of it..

If white girls want a safe place to dance to rap music, then what's the problem with that?

One obvious problem is how the concept of a "safe place" is being defined here..

I think there are pressing issues to be blogging about.

I couldn't disagree more. Is this party an important "news item"? Not really. Are the promoters and attendees of this party menaces to society that must be stopped before they destroy us all? Not really. They are just some young folks who are a little (well okay, more than a little) naive, self-absorbed and oblivious.

But is it worthwhile to them accountable for the unintended effects of their choices, and point out how their obliviousness is affecting those around them? Absolutely. Does the topic provide insight and open the door for discussion on many un(der)examined aspects of how we each engage race and culture? Absolutely. The amount of discourse it has sparked here and elsewhere makes that clear.

I don't think there's ever been a better topic for blogging.. if anything, it's a much better topic for a blog than it is for a Washington Post article.

There are so many issues going on here that it's difficult to keep the conversation from getting muddled.

What I'm personally finding fascinating is this idea that regardless of their actions, these kids are exempt from scrutiny because of their probable politics. As if, since they vote Democrat (or even better, Green) and ride in Critical Mass and got arrested at last year's Republican convention, we should just know their hearts are in the right place and their actions don't matter or at least should be seen as a major indicator.

Why is it too much to be judged by your actions? I don't know what the Pumpsta is thinking; I do know he and his friends offered free admission with a bucket of fried chicken.

enough with the fried chicken...if chicken is going to be reduced to a racial stereotype, then you guys live solely in the over intelluctualized world of books. ture there is some ignorance being bashed back and forth, but for all those people who have never attended a kill whitie party, it's time for you to leave the safety of you kyeboards and screens and venture out to face somebody's adaption of the real world.
it's interesting that no one is questioning washington post's motive for printing such a twisted story...and the fact that so many people were eager to respond without investigating on their own just shows how complacent we've all become to believing everything we read.
there is nothing wrong with a party that promotes dancing and music, sure the names a little fucked up, but for music and moves to be equated to the appropriation of blackness is sick and superficial...just my opinion.

Okay, I said this is about obliviousness rather than malice, but..

enough with the fried chicken...if chicken is going to be reduced to a racial stereotype, then you guys live solely in the over intelluctualized world of books.

On the other hand, there is a point at which willful obliviousness becomes indistinguishable from malice..

and there is a point where the narrow minded lense of over-analyzation becomes allienation to all...eating the other does not refer to a rueben being jewish and fried chicken being black...take another look at hooks

get a sense of humor, people. chill.

So Chip, being offended by Tha Pumpsta's use of fried chicken is over-intellectual? Why are you trying to define offense for other people?

When ignorance is used to promote an event, that is unfortunate. When racial ignorance is used to promote an event, it's wholly improper for a diverse democracy like the United States.

There is nothing redeemable in any sense about these 'Kill Whitie' parties. If some White people want to retreat to 'safe spaces' where Black people are not found to imitate Black stereotypes and denigrate Black culture, we should not laugh it off as youthful indulgence.

We should call it the bigotry it is. It's not irony, it's racism. Tha Pumpsta deserves all the scorn he receives for these exercises in stupidity.

What's wrong with Fried Chicken? Shit if someone showed up to my DJ night with a bucket of chicken I'd be stoked. Maybe Tha Pumpsta likes Fried Chicken too. Is it a goddamn crime? Back to the point, This is a really fun gay dance party, where people seriously get down and dirty. Do you honestly think these girls could go to a regular hip hop night and dance like that without being molested by a half a dozen thugs? Get a clue.

When racial ignorance is used to promote an event, it's wholly improper for a diverse democracy like the United States.

well i don't know what nation you're living in, but the one i call united states of america is constantly warping our views of eachother and ourselves by portraying in the media, on television and in films, racial slanted stereotypes. if you ever have a converstaion with an acutal human being than you will see how these racial classifications are false. screw it, just dance if you want to or drink if you want. hell, you can even smoke a newport if ya like.

Intent, I don't really care where these girls can go to dance like showgirls without being molested by anyone; that's not my problem. What is problematic is the idea that the only 'safe' way to enjoy hip hop music through dance is to remove Black men from the room. Black men are not 'thugs' or 'hardcore' by and large. The bigoted fear expressed in the article by one of the "Kill Whitie" partygoers should be addressed as the prejudice that it is.

And Tha Pumpsta's use of fried chicken is indefensible.

Chip, just because racial misrepresentation is commonplace in the USA doesn't make it right. In the real world, a guy like the Pumpsta is wrong for promoting his parties with anti-Black stereotypes. His misappropriation of Black political history is problematic to say the least. Really, it's just stupid.

Perhaps, Chip, people who defend him could lay off the "stereotypes are ok" bandwagon. It gets old.

Why does chip have a chip on his shoulder? I am going to hold any further comments until tommorow night when I do leave the comfort of my keyboard and mingle if they're willing with the hipsters. Hope to see you guys there!

Like James said. The promotion of the parties by using anti-black stereotypes is the biggest clue that Tha Pumpsta is not being benign. What he is being is reductionist. Black people = fried chicken and a bass beat.

I also want to echo O-Dub in promoting my old friend, Prometheus 6. If you aren't reading his blog, you should be.

Speaking of blogging, I'm been too busy. But, this 'Kill Whitie' nonsense is the kind of thing that might lead me to fire up my two again.

I am not O-Dub, but i'll take that as a compliment. :)

Chip, are you taking the piss?

it's not "killing whitey" if it's a white only event. It's blackface. If you really want to "kill the whitey" inside, you should try going to non-white social environments and listen instead of trying to control everything. I mean, really, creating a safe space to be white in is not "killing the whitey inside."
While you're at it, check out:
http://racetraitor.org

Yeah I promised not to make any comments until after tonight but the above comment really sums it up in a nutshell.

Nope. You're all wrong. Honestly.

There's about a zillion messages that have been posted making fun of the guy in the picture and ridiculing what everyone is dying to believe is the latest in a long line of white appropriation of black culture. But you're all wrong.

The article is a fraud.

The party is great. It's completely mixed. It's often predominatly hispanic due to it's location.
It's a mixed crowd of gay and straight. People dance, drink, have a good time.

The DJ's great. He happens to be white. He plays solid Miami Bass sets. It's not a joke. It's authentic. But they have a sense of humor. He realizes that he is unusual among white DJs, in that he specializes in music that is typically a black idiom. He points it out by calling the party Kill Whitey. It's funny because it's an apparent contradiction.

Fried Chicken. That's basically everyones complaint. But it's like this: they have a sense of humor and they're not above pointing out the inherent absurdity of loading something as benign as fried chicken with so much heavy cultural symbolism. Anyone, from any background, can see the humor in making Fried Chicken fighting words.
They were pointing out absurdity. It's called humor.

You're all wrong, because you don't know. You're taking the article at face value and it's a complete fabrication.

The VICE school of rich assholes who think you either laugh at their racist crap or you're a stick in the mud is fucking lame.

All the NYU rich fucks who think they are clever for calling each other nigga can eat shit and die. You're not funny, not clever and are doing more to waste this town then just about anything.

The scenesters glob onto whatever neighborhood is happening until they smother it with their Sex In The City mentality and lame defense of "irony."

CLUE: If you are "ironic" all the time, it's not "irony." You are just an asshole.

I don't know if you're still talking about this party, or if you're just taking about "rich, NYU, Vice magazine assholes," but if you're still talking about the party, you're wrong because you don't know who you're talking about. That's not who these kids are, not the ones I've met.

CLUE: You're just full of mis-guided anger.

I'm convinced. C'mon guys, we've been told it's funny. These kids can't be offensive because they they simply can't be. That's not who they are. If that logic doesn't work for you, I can't help you.

Here, check the flickr page. Many of the pictures have 1-2 non-white people in them, so I don't see what everybody's problem is.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85882998@N00/sets/737105/show/

(btw: that's how you use irony, baby!)

Well done Janine. You hate with so much flair.

This article "the trouble with Irony" from Counterpunch (July '05) is worth reading.
http://www.counterpunch.org/bailey07022005.html

on the same thing. Unless, er, did someone else already post it?
I'm obsessed with these W'burg assholes now. Whenever I go there it's like I'm back in college.

I don't hat the poeple who go to those parties. My language is harsh because I'm trying to shock you into understanding. This whole thing and your reaction to being found out is the very definition of numbskull. As a matter of fact, deconstruct it. Break it down: numb-skull.

Numbskull act I: Not merely having a booty bass party in Williamsburg for a mixed crowd but rather, making fun of black people while you do it. Numbskull act II: not seeing that it would offend. Numbskull act III: telling people who are offended that they have no right to be.

I'm sure you're probably a nice guy, but if I were in a room with you, I'd be yelling "bad, bad!" at you like you were a mini dacshund, because you just don't get it.

And that hate stuff... Man, you clearly don't even know what hate really looks like.

It’s just a party. If you don’t approve of it, don’t go. It’s that simple. People tend to be so possessive with the wrong things. Where do you find the time? When’s the last time hip-hop paid your rent (professionals in the industry excluded – you’re the exception)? I can only think of a handful of people who are really getting paid from it, and I’m real sure they’re grateful for your help. Look out for the mailman cause your check is in the mail.

Rich… wouldn’t everyone like to be? What’s the point of success if you can’t let it shine of you kids, right? Want them to work just so they can eat and have a place to sleep so they can get up and go to work the next day to eat and have a place to sleep with no time in between to breath – or dance? Sounds kind of monotonous. F*ck, sounds like you and me. Again, it’s only a party. It’s not worth it. Williamsburg is only a neighborhood. If it’s too expensive or too ironic, move. The world is a big place, but I guess a party takes priority over finding that out. I’m sure all you intelligent people know about the First Amendment. We may not like some sh*t, but goddammit, the right to say it is there. I say reverse the party with a Kill Blackie party and play new wave. Kill the blackness inside of us with some art school generated synthesizer jams. I’m black, and I’m straight, and I love Duran Duran, The Cars, Adam Ant and the English Beat (the latter not so new wave).

Check it. It’s a great party trick: Hip-hop. Hip-ster. See with the hyphen, the root of the word stays the same. “Hip” usually functions as an adjective this way meaning: characterized by a keen informed awareness of or involvement in the newest developments or styles. Cool, huh?

Rap, rock, punk, reggae, new wave, country, electronica, whatever – it’s all pop music. Pop as in popular within the culture, creating the pop culture phenomenon, and dependency, with fuels OUR corporations. Rich or poor, black or white, Nike or Vans, "finding" or "looting"; it doesn’t matter. Nothing is sacred – we’re all walking billboards, and I think that’s the real problem. That’s what we really hate.

Don’t you think it’s wrong that guys like Billy Ocean or Phil Collins couldn’t have mainstream success if they were to come out today?

Is it wrong that I have always wanted to attend a Black indie rock dance party? Free admission with trust fund.

"Don’t you think it’s wrong that guys like Billy Ocean or Phil Collins couldn’t have mainstream success if they were to come out today?"

I keep coming back. I keep posting. I must look like an insane obsessive, but you people are friggin crazy. No amount of love I have for the song "Easy Lover" is germaine to the conversation. I'm just waiting for someone else to say the corporations want us to fight, man.

One piece of disclosure: I'm not really a part of the hip hop community, really. I'm an African American that has listened to rock since about 5th grade. The reason I put that out there is I'm wondering if at shows, at college, etc., have I been socially surrounding myself with oblivious knuckleheads?

I guess that's why I'm waiting for one person, just one even to say: "I do not agree from my personal experiences at this party, but here are some rebuttals to your argument." Not, "You people don't know what you're talking about. Move out of Williamsburg."

Janine: EXACTLY. I think there could be a lot of room for discussion here, if the party's defenders approached this in a way that made discussion possible. But like i said, that's the problem with so much of the ironic detachment stuff, it's about being provocative while absolving yourself of responsibility for anything you provoke.

ok who went last night?!? @ work so I'll be brief....it's not all that serious!!! Just oblivious ppl dancing and chilling....whatever point Pumpstah was trying to make with naming the party "Kill Whitie" lost in the translation or fallin on deaf ears. Defenitely a failed attempt @ art. Does an "art party" even work to get your point across?

Most of these ppl weren't going home after this party less white anyhow....only smelly of underarm funk....but I digress.

I really would hope I wasn't the onlyone "whom left the comfort of there keyboards."

Who went?

P.S.

Met a couple of cool cats..also oblivous....more later.

By the way, I love your site as well as your suggested links over on the left. I'm finding out that there's a lot I missed since Kwame's Ownlee Ewe.

"I've been saying for years that irony is now the last refuge of a coward. A singularly dishonest and deluded sort of coward who imagines his behavior a mark of courage, as he fearlessly refuses to take anything seriously."

This is right on. I started a paper/polemic/zine on this subject some time ago and should probably get off my ass to finish. Irony has ceased to be a literary technique and has become, as the author cogently notes, and like patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel and coward. An excuse to do nothing; in other words, cynicism without edge.

The saddest part of this whole "Kill Whitie" situation is its misappropriation/underming of a very real and very necessary move by anti-racist white folks to actually attempt to kill white privilege, some of the consciousness-raising stuff inspired by bell hooks' famous remark, and concentrated around the Race Traitor journal, and scholars like Noel Ignatiev et al., ARA, and certain anarchist collectives, particularly in the southwest and California.

I am all down for fun but this looks like just more priviledged irony-for-irony's sake.

To paraphrase Emma Goldman: "If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution. But I don't want to dance without revolution."

WOW..what i find exhilaratingly titillating is how most people find it in their own right to insult Jeremy Parker "Tha Pumpsta" for being ironic or what not when all he and his crew are trying to do is provide a space where people who like to dance to hip hop/booty bass CAN. Being CUBAN and From Miami born and raised and actually experiencing the bootybass revolution as a teen and that being part of my culture, who and what person would i be if i were to say "he has no right to do this party, he cannot relate" if anyone on this board invented hip hop or booty bass...please stand up and show your face..then you are probably the only one that can say anything palpatable..As for racial references to fried chicken an supposed stereotypes...whose to say that when he said that it was to be taken as an insult.
People stereotype themselves everyday as jokes just because im not black does not mean thats gonna stop me from making jokes about fried chicken to my black friends just as if they were to tell me jokes about tacos because im hispanic the same goes here...i bet half of you who are so hip hop would not be pissed if someone were called a faggot because wait YOU use that term loosely now dont you...there's a give and take here..and im sure this supposed hatred towards Jeremy for creating this is not a racist issue its more like some good old fashion HATING going on...oh wait i think i just used a racial slur that imnot part of...this is 2005.its about unity not separation.so please no hard feelings...fuck the politics inthis andlets just fucking dance...and lastly who gives a shit if williamsburg is too hip for its own good...i got a cheap apartment my ass aint TRYIN to give that up and i sure aint trying tobe hip just because i live here

are trying to do is provide a space where people who like to dance to hip hop/booty bass CAN.

This is quite simply dishonest, because if that's all he wanted to do, it could have easily been accomplished without all the racial provocation.

fuck the politics in this andlets just fucking dance...

I agree, and that's exactly why Pumpsta and friends should not have so clumsily and carelessly brought politics into it.

we were raised in excessive political correctness insofar that we begun to lose who we were from fear offending others.

humor helps us all lighten teh f up sometimes, you know?

does anyone know if this party is still happening & if so, when & at what club ? thanks.

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