AUDIO: KRS-One Threatening Adisa Banjoko at Stanford University

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the tape it sounds like Adisa is ready to throwdown with KRS. Does Adisa know martial arts or something?

Fuck whoever this bishop dude is. Noone is in position to disrespect or try to challenge KRS aside from Chuck D., Rakim or Run.
And have they ever done so? Then who is this sucker trying to get a rap of the God? KRS is and always will be walking hip-hop.

Where is this little dude's album?

I'm so sick of these little writers and internet personalites with blog voices thinking they are superior to legends.

Know your role.

Raising KRS' blood pressure like that. Fuck wrong with you?

-Black People

He studies jiu-jitsu, I believe, and KRS would've probably taken an L. :) But it doesn't sound to me like Adisa had any interest in stooping to that level..

Oh man, I'll pay to see that fight! Er, I mean... I would never stoop to that level.

damn, Kris really wilded out. That was worse than I expected.

KRS said he "felt like beating his ass" but did not threaten him.

i wish there was more context for this. What made KRS go off like this?

Did you read the links I put up to prohiphop etc?

That's exactly the point, there was no context or reason for it, beyond what you see and hear here, and on the links I put up about their previous exchanges.. (which clearly in no way justified KRS's antics).

Adisa and KRS hadn't exchanged a word thus far in this panel, and KRS just saw him and went into this rant out of nowhere..

bellend: he said quite a bit more in addition to that, and wrapped it up with "don't let us be somewhere.." the meaning of which was crystal clear.

Eh, guess he's human like every other rapper.

I'll still take this over drug/pimp/gangsta/hustla/bitches & Hoes suck my dick rap.

He could threaten 30 more people and it still would be better than having 90% of the hip hop that shows up on B.E.T. and MTV be on there.

KrsGate?, Jay? This is playground stuff in the context of what our society is experiencing right now. He definitely needs to check himself but honestly I have to allow the man to be frustrated from time to time. Fighting what is almost like a one-man war, for people in his position, has to get a bit taxing every now and again.

It's notable, sure, but that's pretty much it.

Oh come on!

uh, that was a meltdown?

jay smooth getting all moral for no reason, i am dissapointed jay, you act like a goody 2 shoes some times, stop acting like a school teacher, krs a legend he can say wtf he wants you act like no one ever beefed before.

KRS kept saying that Adisa was a fraud and an FBI agent. Where does that come from?

After listening to that, and reading the related links, I don't have a problem with what KRS said. Dude's been calling him out all over the internet, but now that KRS is in his face, he has nothing to say.

I read both letters and both make very good points. I must admit, I was in full agreement with the Bishop until reading Kris' response.

It seems that KRS-One believes that we need to stop defining ourselves by our differences. He acknowledges that hip hop is all the things that the Bishop says: an amalgamation of many ethnicities, cultures and philosophies. But as a result, KRS One says, it has become much more.

It's pretty clear the KRS one isn't asking anyone to abandon their beliefs anymore than anyone could abandon their ethnicity. What he is saying is, we need to stop identifying ourselves as our beliefs and our ethnicities and see ourselves as something which despite our differences, we share: Hip Hop.

I can see where a person with very strong religious views (of any sort) could have trouble with a.) the portrayal of hip hop as a religion, and b.) of KRS One the embodiment of the religion. Such statements are sacriledge in anyones church, temple or shrine but I think it misses the point that we have an opportunity to move beyond our old self views. (I was particuarly struck by his distinction between being free and beeing freed.)

Granted, the melt down was pretty crazy no matter how you slice it (I haven't seen anything but respect from Adisa towards Kris) and was as far as I can tell pretty uncalled for, but the debate is an important one and both men make extremely valid points. If we were to honestly study both men's positions I think we could learn a lot about how to move forward as a whole people. All the better if we can do it without violence.

Well said, Lloyd.

-Black People

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Iron: I'm not sure why you're taking "KRSgate" as if it means I'm equating this with the genocide in Darfur or something.. I used that phrase cuz I think it's a bad look that a lot of people will be talking about, like nipplegate, sylvestergate etc.. how big a deal it'll be remains to be seen, but if you agree that it's notable I'm not clear on what your objection is to my posting it. And I don't see how other people's shortcomings means KRS shouldn't be called out for his.

David: Quite the contrary, Adisa doesn't shy away at all from answering KRS. Listen to the tape you hear him say "if you want to have the debate let's have the debate!" And as for Adisa "calling him out all over the internet," Adisa has been respectfully challenging KRS' ideas, which is quite different from thugged out threats to take it out to the street, and Adisa never did anything to justify KRS taking it there, much less calling Adisa an FBI agent and all that.

LLoyd: Yeah exactly. That's why I wish KRS would step up for the debate.

Nah, ya boy Adisa's analysis is full of shit. He's trying to apply a structured theme to something completely unstructured. The biggest aspect that defines Hip-Hop is that it is undefineable. Any box you try to put it in, it breaks out of. You can name things or practices that are prevelant in Hip-Hop, but it's not defined by the sum of it's parts. Just as it is difficult to completely define what it is to be Christian, or African American (sure you could fall short and say "you believe in Jesus" or "your ancestors were from Africa and you were born in America" but that wouldn't be complete). In that sense, KRS-One was much more accurate in defining Hip-Hop as it's part in every individual in the culture than classifying it as a sub-culture, which is really anything. Shit if two people only eat peanut butter sandwiches for a year, you could say that was a sub-culture. Adisa's anaylisis was cold, complicated, over-worded and clumsy, and his style in the pictures made him look like an Uncle Tom.

On the real, it disturbs me that so many people apparently find this behavior defensible. Could any of y'all point out what Adisa has said or done that even remotely justifies KRS calling him an FBI agent and enemy to the culture and ranting about kicking his ass?

And as for Adisa "calling him out all over the internet," Adisa has been respectfully challenging KRS' ideas, which is quite different from thugged out threats to take it out to the street

So Jay, when Adisa says "KRS-ONE is a good brother. I love him but he ducked me. But I know why...[KRS-ONE] has too much to lose. He would get broke by me on the podium," you consider that respectful? It sounds to me like he's calling KRS a scared punk. And I wouldn't take to kindly to it if someone came at me like that.

David, are you seriously suggesting that Adisa saying he can out-debate KRS is justification for KRS to rant about physically assaulting him?

All I know is, KRS-ONE gets this peace rap on him because of "Self Destruction" and rapping on R.E.M. tracks, but really he's NOT a nice person. He's from the streets, and he built his career on beefing with adversaries ("South Bronx" "The Bridge Is Over"). I'm not surprised that KRS-ONE got passionate. But at the same time, it sounds to me (from the audio) that the people in attendance jumped the gun a bit and blew it out of proportion. Maybe they thought KRS was packin', which is absurd-- he's strictly old-school, meaning he would have probably just gotten into dude's face and (at the very worst) maybe a brawl would've ensued.

I saw KRS wild out on the audience and the sound crew at the Cypress Hill Smoke-Out, so I am not in the least shocked by his behavior. And Adisa shouldn't act like nothing is wrong when he knows he's called out KRS in the past. Maybe KRS was the one who started acting up, but did Adisa come up to him before the summit and offer an olive branch?

I seriously doubt anybody there thought KRS was about to pull out a gun, that's not the issue..

And again, I do not understand how writing an essay questioning someone's ideas even approaches justifying all that nonsense that came in return.

Jay, I believe that Adisa tried to debate KRS, and when KRS declined his challenge, Adisa called KRS out, and called him out in a disrespectful manner ("he ducked me....He would get broke by me on the podium."). Do you really think that quote was "a respectful challenge of KRS' ideas?"

If I was in KRS' shoes, I would be very pissed that this guy, whom I had been very kind to and helped out in the past, was coming at me like that. And I would probably want to jump over the table and kick his ass the next time I saw him, which is how KRS felt.

And like KRS, I probably wouldn't jump over the table and kick his ass, because where at a university, and it's really not the right venue for me to be acting that ignorant. But there are some places where I am liable to get that ignorant, so he should know that.

That's how I read the situation.

Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay.

Jay Smooth.

Smooth.

You mind if I call you that?
No?
Ok. Good.

Smooth, it sounds like - with a site called HipHopMusic.com, no less - that you are trying to turn us against KRS-ONE (stompin' once more).

Smooth, that does not compute, holmes.

Hiphop vs. KRS = illogical.

KRS is hiphop.

Look at the big picture here. I hope you are not one of those dudes who goes word for word with his mother or grandmom. That is not cool.

You must respect those that have come before you.

No matter what the small issues at stake are here, you should not lose sight of two things:

1) Whomever this little dude who is trying to spar with KRS ONE he is way out of order. He's disrepectful. He is and will never be on the same level as the guy who produced mad izm, justice's goin' way back. He has no right to be trying to aggravate the god like this, and

2)This site is called hiphopmusic.com. In other words it might as well be called KRSONE.com
That's how much he's given to the music you named your site after. Noone has repped hiphop like KRS in history. No one.

Don't try to turn people against KRS-ONE. Don't try to embarass KRS-ONE. Don't be disrespectful to KRS-ONE.

-Black People

(think before you jumped to respond. you may owe all of us an apology)

it was actually funny although i dont agree with krs blacking out like dat on a panel. I do think however that the bishop should have never challenged krs publicly. IT seeemed like he's like a cat trying to blow up off of dissin krs like some hungry rapper type. Prince Be opened his mouth and look what happened .. jk lol

In a nutshell, KRS's view is:

"You can't argue with me about hip hop because I AM hip hop."

This line of thinking is not metaphysical. It isn't even philosophical. It is political: either you accept that KRS is hip hop (thus making you a follower); or you realize hip hop means different things to different people and that no single definitive meaning or embodiment of hip hop EXISTS (in other words it is a CONCEPT).

Of course, what sparked this commentary was not KRS' egomania, but simply his behavior. This is about decorum. KRS physically threatened Adisa and made false accusations. People are surprised that KRS would feel the need to stoop so low. It suggests he is feeling threatened. Uh oh, hip hop is in trouble. Er, wait... if KRS goes to jail... does that mean hip hop goes to jail? Bad joke... sorry.

"Black people": nobody is disputing KRS's place in hip-hop history, as one of those who helped build the house we all live in. Nobody here is a bigger BDP fan than I am. But this does not mean we should follow him blindly and shy away from questioning anything he says and does.

There's nothing disrespectful at all about scrutinizing and debating the words of our leaders, in fact that is an essential component of a healthy relationship with any leader.. if your leadership can't stand up to scrutiny it cannot be worth too much. The problem here is that KRS, with this insistence that his ideas ought never be questioned or challenged, is asking to be treated not as a leader so much as a cult leader.

Point well taken, Smooth. (Can I still call you that?)

Oh and thanks for the platform.

-Black People

Black People: Sure, call me whatever :)

Skwidawd: Yeah, exactly.

David: No, not at all. within the context of that conversation, and hip-hop's tradition of boasting and battling, I don't think Adisa was anywhere near out of bounds. In fact I find it bizarre that KRS of all people, whose entire career was founded on those traditions, would suddenly be so hypersensitive and unable to handle it.

If someone challenges your emcee skills, and you resort to getting physical while refusing to meet the challenge on the level of emceeing, that's an automatic L for you as an emcee. Likewise, if you call yourself an intellectual and someone challenges you on an intellectual level, and you can only answer by talking about kicking their ass? Automatic L. KRS did nothing but prove Adisa right.

I'm sorry, Jay, but you are completely wrong on this one. A few points:

-- As far as KRS' beef with Adisa: This comes down to Adisa's "hip-hop is just a sub-culture" POV vs. KRS' "hip-hop is a culture" POV. The ideas have already been debated, in the messages they sent to each other at the beginning (which you have kindly linked to here). All the stuff that Adisa was asking for, with debate teams and rules and such, that's just theater. And for Adisa to make some sort of fetish over podiums and debate teams says to me that he's not a particularly serious intellectual.

The actual arguments are already right there. The intellectual challenge was already met. And in my opinion, KRS waxed his ass. What KRS is advocating is extremely simple, and extremely radical: I WILL DEFINE MYSELF. I will not be slotted into the box that you have prepared for me. I find his argument much more persuasive than Adisa's point that we can't existence outside of already existing definitions.

-- KRS' behavior at the panel discussion: IMO, the more clips you post, the better KRS comes off. From the clips you've linked to, he was actually leading the discussion to a productive place, which, in my experience, is something that never, ever happens at panel discussions.

KRS was getting into a long overdue topic: how will we critically study hip-hop? Who can legitimately criticize it? How can one be qualified to criticize it? Does being a critic of hip-hop make you a member of the hip-hop community? Whose theories are more legitimate: those with a string of academic qualifications, or those who've lived the life? And most importantly of all, what are the purposes of hip-hop criticism? Is it helping lead us somewhere better, or is it just an intellectual circle jerk?

Now, you may disagree with KRS on some of these questions (and I do, vehemently), but in an academic setting, no discussion is more important. And the fact that the audience and moderator were trying to cut him off and change the subject shows that KRS is thinking on a whole nother level than us "intellectuals." His argument with Davey D was going somewhere real. Why cut it off?

-- I am hip-hop: I don't think any other statement has been more misconstrued (either purposefully or not), than this one. It's not an egomaniacal statement at all (though I must point out that KRS probably has a bigger ego than any other emcee out there). KRS is saying "if you want to understand hip-hop, look at me." He's not saying "if you wnat to understand hip-hop, look at only me." Look at Busy B, he's hip-hop. Look at Doug E. Fresh, he's hip-hop. Look at Bambatta, he's hip-hop. I would think this would be a very simple point, but people persist in misunderstanding it.

My main problem with his "I am hip-hop" statement is that, judging by his remarks at the panel, it doesn't allow for people who weren't there at the Bronx at the start. I think that's short-sighted and contradicts his idea that we can escape our boxes and define ourselves through hip-hop. But it's not egomaniacal.

Sorry about the length.

"All the stuff that Adisa was asking for, with debate teams and rules and such, that's just theater. "

Actually, it's not. People that don't argue for a living, only argue out of passion. Rules and what not allow you to discuss something rather than turn it into a church revival/political rally.

Look no further than the most recent State of the Black Union.

It puts Krs at a disadvantage because he really has to think about his arguments.

Not that Adisa is really that sharp either.

I'm sorry, k. orr, you're right. Let me rephrase: Adisa's gave KRS an intellectual challenge, and KRS responded. But since he didn't respond in the format that Adisa suggested (before an audience, with debate teams and formal debate rules), Adisa took this as evidence that KRS was ducking him. But KRS didn't duck the intellectual challenge. He responded to the argument, and responded well, in my opinion. So in what way was KRS ducking him? It makes me wonder why that format is so important to Adisa.

If KRS actually wanted to "let people define themselves," why would he use the expression "I am hip hop."

Wouldn't silence be more appropriate?

Knowledge
Reign
Supreme
Over
Nearly
Everyone. Thats all I have to say. Im tired of typing.

its bigger than hip hop

that's what hip hop
has really taught us...

what we are -
what we do is bigger, in itself:
the life i am and
will be is bigger than
millions of record sales and manufactured mass influence (the ego, vanity, etc.)
and its smaller and more precious than the finest things in life - all pertaining to the true self (the main point, the main source, word!)

its about leading life (the youth) and letting yourself be lead by the life force
hell, it started from a youthfull expression -
to find harmony and balance in an choatic environment at odds with the true Self, at odds with our true nature.
its bigger than hip hop (word up to Dead Prez)
some hip hoppers knew this for some time now, but could only interpret from what was written on the walls that lay under the roof of duality - that Hip Hop is dead...but that is because they BELIEVED Hip Hop started (born) out in the park in the South Bronx.
Look beyond the boundaries.
Hip Hop was born in the soul and spirit of the youth ("fuck the 1st amendment, my speech was free the day my soul descended earth bound" -Soup of J5), those bounded by manufactured elements and rigid systems and short sighted institutions.

the problem with Hip Hop
is that it wants to mature (not ready to die)
ask Scott La Rock
ask Pac
ask Biggie
ask Big L
ask Jam Master Jay
ask Freaky Tah

and what you had with KRS
at the panel discussion, was a burst of immaturity. He lost sight of his beliefs and became enamored by his passion and ego. He wasnt right nor was he wrong, he just wasn't in accord with what he stood for - PEACE LOVE AND UNITY - but this reminds the rest of us that he is human just like the rest of us - this does not take away from what KRS-ONE has accomplished, and will continue to accomplish but it does leave some authenticity issues he must come to with himself, not as a hip hop, not as a man, not as an element, but as a human, and that there are some inherent flaws (and has been since recorded time) with our ways (gotta stay fresh) in this ever so growing nations of Zulus or what have you. you dig.
OneLoveOne

much respect to Jay Smooth -
you've maintained such a healthy site for sum time now - and I want acknowledge your dedication and integrity to the people and culture. Thank you.

Ok:

-- As far as KRS' beef with Adisa: This comes down to Adisa's "hip-hop is just a sub-culture" POV vs. KRS' "hip-hop is a culture" POV. The ideas have already been debated, in the messages they sent to each other at the beginning (which you have kindly linked to here). All the stuff that Adisa was asking for, with debate teams and rules and such, that's just theater. And for Adisa to make some sort of fetish over podiums and debate teams says to me that he's not a particularly serious intellectual.

You have a somewhat higher opinion of KRS' response than I do.. but that's not even the point. The point is, even assuming you are right, how does that justify KRS calling Adisa an "FBI agent" and "enemy of the culture" and threatening to "beat his ass?"

The actual arguments are already right there. The intellectual challenge was already met. And in my opinion, KRS waxed his ass. What KRS is advocating is extremely simple, and extremely radical: I WILL DEFINE MYSELF. I will not be slotted into the box that you have prepared for me. I find his argument much more persuasive than Adisa's point that we can't existence outside of already existing definitions.

I don't even have a strong opinion on who's correct on the "I Am Hip-Hop issue, and I haven't addressed it here because it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is, even if we assume you are right, how does that justify KRS calling Adisa an "FBI agent" and "enemy of the culture" and threatening to "beat his ass?"

-- KRS' behavior at the panel discussion: IMO, the more clips you post, the better KRS comes off. From the clips you've linked to, he was actually leading the discussion to a productive place, which, in my experience, is something that never, ever happens at panel discussions.

We definitely heard that differently.. for my ears the new clips paint a more vivid picture of KRS stifling and stalling out the discussion, refusing to let the rest of the panel speak and insisting that his opinions should somehow be above scrutiny. As I said above, he sounds like he expects to be treated as a cult leader.

KRS was getting into a long overdue topic: how will we critically study hip-hop? Who can legitimately criticize it? How can one be qualified to criticize it? Does being a critic of hip-hop make you a member of the hip-hop community? Whose theories are more legitimate: those with a string of academic qualifications, or those who've lived the life? And most importantly of all, what are the purposes of hip-hop criticism? Is it helping lead us somewhere better, or is it just an intellectual circle jerk?

I do agree this is a worthy topic, though I can't agree that it's never discussed, I've seen it come up many a time. Sometimes it leads to some great conversation, but other times it is used an defensive/evasive maneuver by those who position themselves on right side the of that line. I see this as a clear example of the latter.

Now, you may disagree with KRS on some of these questions (and I do, vehemently), but in an academic setting, no discussion is more important. And the fact that the audience and moderator were trying to cut him off and change the subject shows that KRS is thinking on a whole nother level than us "intellectuals." His argument with Davey D was going somewhere real. Why cut it off?

See above.

-- I am hip-hop: I don't think any other statement has been more misconstrued (either purposefully or not), than this one. It's not an egomaniacal statement at all (though I must point out that KRS probably has a bigger ego than any other emcee out there). KRS is saying "if you want to understand hip-hop, look at me." He's not saying "if you wnat to understand hip-hop, look at only me." Look at Busy B, he's hip-hop. Look at Doug E. Fresh, he's hip-hop. Look at Bambatta, he's hip-hop. I would think this would be a very simple point, but people persist in misunderstanding it. My main problem with his "I am hip-hop" statement is that, judging by his remarks at the panel, it doesn't allow for people who weren't there at the Bronx at the start. I think that's short-sighted and contradicts his idea that we can escape our boxes and define ourselves through hip-hop. But it's not egomaniacal.

I do agree that his statement, as it was originally articulated, was not egomaniacal and often misconstrued. But it seems to have evolved since then, judging by the comments heard here, to carry some other baggage. He seems to saying here that "I and a select number of colleagues are hip-hop, and the rest of you are qualified only to sit at our feet and humbly ask questions, but never to second-guess our answers." I find this position deeply disturbing.

But again, the only question I'm really asking here is how does any of this this justify KRS calling Adisa an "FBI agent" and "enemy of the culture" and threatening to "beat his ass?" ...especially considering how deadly serious the "FBI agent" accusation is, in the Black activist circles that both Adisa and Kris are experienced with.

I doubt we will make much headway in convincing each other but I appreciate you taking the time to write out your thoughts with so much detail.

Thanks, sigh, and I think that's a very fair and accurate assessment.

But again, the only question I'm really asking here is how does any of this this justify KRS calling Adisa an "FBI agent" and "enemy of the culture" and threatening to "beat his ass?"

I'll say this: I don't know Adisa, and I'm assuming that he's not an FBI agent. I think KRS sounds like he is having delusions of grandeur, as if there is a new COINTELPRO targeting him.

Having said that, I believe that the way Adisa came at KRS was very provacative, in the "agent provocateur" sense of the word. He had plenty of opportunities in the past to confront KRS on a personal level, and they could have discussed and debated there differences in there many personal conversations. But instead, Adisa chose to challenge him publicly. And KRS responded to his challenge, but chose not to do it the way Adisa wanted him to, for whatever reason. Adisa responded by propagating the fiction that KRS was "ducking him." That type of claim can be very damaging to someone who made their reputation as the ultimate battle rapper. I don't think that makes him an FBI agent, but it certainly sounds similar to tactics they used.

As far as threatening to beat his ass, I addressed that upthread -- if someone came at me the way Adisa came at KRS, I'd want to beat his ass too. I wouldn't say it's right or admirable, but it's the truth.

Okay, all those typos in my last post tells me I'm too tired to continue this discussion any more tonight. If I haven't already talked it to death, we can pick it up tomorrow. Peace.

Good discussion here, Jay. (I know you from way back from lj, so I hope it's cool I call you that).

I do think Krs' comments were out of line. I thought Krsgate was a bit much because Watergate was a monumental turning point in history, and I really don't think this is one, but I guess that remains to be seen.

I think it's wack that Krs is ducking Adisa on the debate front. I understand not giving time to every kook who has a disagreement, but then turning around and making it clear that you have a score to settle with them is then lame. Either you brush them and their viewpoint off and laugh at them, or you mentally crush them with superior logic.

Krs isn't Noam Chomsky, it appears. The funny thing to me from all this is that it really seems like the issue that is being debated it semantics, but perhaps I don't understand fully what the rub is.

What would be great is if some people like you (Jay) or anybody who is commenting who is geographically closer to the action, who shares Krs' view, to debate Adisa.

Perhaps someone can explain the stakes (the arguments) here and what the result would be if Adisa or Krs (or his supporters) proved their side?

Hell, Jay, you can make another post and we can have the discussion right here. We're all hip hop (per Krs), right?

I'm sort of amazed though that KRS would actually say that in public but I guess he was following up his previous statement on how a rapper differs from an emcee. I think from this event one can see how KRS has off late become so high handed in his attitude. However, I can't really make too much out of the link as I couldn't exactly hear what was being said (blame my non-existent speakers).

I think KRS's threat to Adisa was un-warranted. Why not act like the big guy? So someone says something you don't like all of a sudden you choose to beat them?

Good debate, no big deal, all been blown out of proportion really.

I agree with David.

Did I miss something? KRS was always like this... from beating up the guy from PM Dawn at his own concert (and subsequently turning down an olive branch that the guy extended) to threatening Kierna Mayo-Dawsey, both of whom made comments far more innocuous than anything Adisa Banjoko has said. KRS One has always been something of a loose cannon IMO. A brilliant guy, sure, and if anyone could claim to be hiphop it would be him ... but his volatility is also legendary, and -- if I may say it -- that volatility is also a part of hiphop, for better or worse. Not that I condone the use of physical violence, but OTOH KRS didn't actually act on his threat. And it's not like he came strapped, as another poster pointed out.

And I can't say that if I was him (imagine that!) I wouldn't feel the same way. Most folks don't take too kindly to being challenged on the truths they've arrived at thru their own experiences and hard life-lessons, the truths that give them inner strength and peace. You know the old saying about discussing religion and politics. Seems like Adisa wanted to take on both.

And if you're going to debate two of the most potentially inflammatory topics in the world, with possibly the most unpredictable person in the world, you'd better be prepared for anything.

I mean no disrespect Jay but listening to these sound clips, IMHO your man comes off as the straight-A student trying to start up an argument with the charismatic school bully, simply in order to prove himself intellectually superior.
Again, no disrespect, just stating my honest opinion.

Peace.

Man...hip-hop goin' to school! Getting all University'd out!!!! This whole thing sounds crazy...KRS is gonna get broken on the podium by Adisa? Fine & dandy if you ask me, but I mean if Adisa's gonna take it there, why not embrace the whole aspect of hip-hop and challenge KRS to a freestyle battle???? It's cool to see the progression of hip-hop like that, being lectured at schools like Stanford, but to call someone out to a debate, thats a little funny. I can't wait to see what's next - some art students who have never painted at 2AM in the subway are gonna challenge Seen and Zephyr to a piece battle!!!!!

I mean if Adisa's gonna take it there, why not embrace the whole aspect of hip-hop and challenge KRS to a freestyle battle????

WORD!!!!

Worve is bond, Ablerocks.

These little dudes are way outta their leagues.

But this is to end all the round and round circles bullshit.

Everyone that's been posting, answer the following (including you smooth):

If you had to pick, who would you say are your top five choices if hiphop came in the form of man?

My answers:

1. KRS-ONE
2. Run
3. Rakim Allah (the r-a stands for "Ra")
4. ??
5. LL Cool J.

Whoever this little dude is (I refuse to say his name. No free publicity from me)he doesn't even come to mind.

He and this debate are totally senseless. Especially on a site called hiphopmusic.com

I could see if this was classicalmusic.com or stanfordwriters.com or Ihatehiphop.com.

But this is hiphopmusic.com.

Do you see the illogic?

Anyway who are your top five?

-Black People

And I love hip hop music. So by default I automatically love KRS ONE.

Kool Keith

Yeah, Kool Keith is a good choice.

I almost forgot about Chuck D.

-Black People

why should a writer/critic have to challenge krs to a freestyle? should the writer challenge kris to an essay-writing contest?

personally, i think adisa is a nobody who's talking out of his ass, but that doesn't excuse krs from acting the fool and threatening people.

krs is a legend and one of the best mcs ever, but the truth is he has always thought way too highly of his own intellectual abilities and his place in the hiphop universe. like most 'conscious' rappers, he speaks in a mixture of platitude and contradiction and when he gets called on his shit he flips out.

just another example of hip hop's evervated current state...

oh, and top 5 mcs (just for kicks):
05. Kool G Rap
04. Nas
03. KRS-One
02. Rakim
01. Big Daddy Kane

Nice list, konijn. But I didn't mean who are the top emcees of all time, but I mean if hiphop came in the form of a person what would your list look like?

-Black People

Whew, I haven't gotten anywhere near enough sleep this week to wrap my head around that question :)

i don't think i could ever find a single person that personifies the form, but there are a handful of people that represent hip hop in a good way (that are talented/knowledgeable/pragmatic without coming off as self-important blowhards).

trying to find one person who 'represents' more than another is ultimately counterproductive because you end up in a thoughtless pissing contest.
---

i'm listening to full audio of the stanford 'conference' right now and i'm shaking my head at how comic/tragic/silly it all is. krs comes off even poorer than i initially thought...

listening to the full audio...
Davey D really kept it on point.
And if KRS was really listening - he would have build on the poignant points put down by Stic, Boots and Davey D and kept it movin.

but
on the same note - i understand KRS's frustration and where he was comin from....

Yo Jay. Long time fan. Got to say I have KRS' back 100% on this. Since when has the truth been pretty? Are we forgetting what the phrase, "By any means necessary" actually means?! Took one look a money's (Adisa's) picture and assumed he was an enemy.(BEFORE hearing the audio)
Peace.I'm off to buy new copies of my BDP albums.

This conversation is absurd. We all have infinite love and respect for KRS for everything he has done and continues to do for hip-hop, but the idea of responding to a perceived intellectual threat with a physical/personal one is just flat-out inexcusable. I'm with Jay: no one is above reproach.

Beyond that, unfortunately there are some serious inconsistencies in the things that KRS was saying. Some of which were no doubt caused by him being heated up. But for him to say that many of the people in the audience aren't hip-hop simply because they're "college" and don't MC or graf is just ridiculous. How many thousands of fans don't MC or break or graf? And if they're not hip-hop either, who exactly is he presuming to lead?

I have to hope that, like i said, it was just on account of him being frustrated.

Of course he was heated. But the central issue of calling out someone that he thought was there under pretense ... he was right on point there. I have to believe that Adisa has been pushing KRS' buttons behind the scenes for some time. I'd blow up too. And why isn't anybody criticizing DaveyD? He kept the argument going just as surely as KRS. I hope KRS hits the lab and comes out with one long, reflective rhyme about this incident, what went wrong, and what lead to it in the first place.

Any iTunes users care to post the audio in its entirety? I would really like to get more than sound bites.

konijn- Why should he challenge KRS to a freestyle battle? Because THAT is the embodiment of what this hip-hop culture is all about. Adisa was saying that he would school KRS at the podium...my point is, Hip-Hop's TRUE podium isn't a wooden stand in a classroom, it's a rhyme cypher on a corner, at a train station. THAT'S hip-hop. Maybe I'm just looking too much at the big picture of what I felt KRS was saying, but I think he's got a right to flip out a bit, get angry and frustrated. From what I heard, he didn't threaten Adisa, he talked about wanting to jump over the table and do something, but he was expressing it, not acting on it. KRS IS HIP-HOP, same as you, or I, or anyone who LOVES and LIVES this culture IS HIP-HOP too. You can study a million courses, hear a million songs, write a million articles. That don't make you hip-hop, it makes you someone who's got a bit of knowledge on the subject. You gotta be there, you gotta live it, experience it, BE it. In the streets, in the classrooms, in your mind. Like how I ended my last comment...You can take 20 years of art class, and draw pieces in a million blackbooks. But unless you have been in the tunnels, climbed rooftops and billboards, bombed trains and walls; you ain't a true WRITER, you're just good at art. That's why I said what I said. This guy is over here screaming hip-hop this and that, calling out possibly the greatest of all-time to a debate? Naw son, isn't this HIP-HOP?? Battle it out.

I dont think KRS meant literally that if you go to college you cant be hip-hop or anything like that. What he's trying to get at is that it's one thing to study and learn about the hip-hop culture in classes, etc. But it's a whole different thing and a different level to live it. To be an emcee, to rhyme, to break, to graf. You get a different feeling and understanding when you live something, when it is a part of what you do and how you conduct your daily business, as opposed to when you just read about it. I think it gives you a certain appreciation, a different kind of love almost for the culture. In my opinion, he's trying to say if you do it, if you live it, if you experience it, and are immersed in it, YOU ARE IT. But if you just listen to rap music and take a few hip-hop related courses at your University, then that doesn't make you hip-hop.

Kris is HIPHOP. The faster these cats understand that the faster the culture can move foward. Kris is a sleeping giant just waiting to wax some ass.

I think yall got it twisted. This dude did not call KRS1 out to a hip hop battle. His arguments are purely intellectual.

and intellectuals debate. it's nothing personal. KRS1 is TOTALLY out of line here. He is too old to be carrying on like this.

He is making himself look like the fraud in the situation

Let there be one thing made clear...
If you do not Break, Graf, DJ, or MC then you are not Hip-Hop.

You can be a fan of Hip-Hop without doing the above, but, you can not be hip-hop.

If you do not paint, then, you are not a painter.

If you do not dance, then, you are not a dancer.

You can critique hip-hop while being a fan. But, please note that your critique will only mean something to other non-HipHoppas. Everyone has an opinion.

I see what youre saying Shug, maybe I'm just getting analytical, maybe I'm much "for" the culture. Debates are cool, don't get me wrong. I just think it's ironic, that the very topic that is involved in the heart of the debate has built in itself a way of 'debating' or resolving conflicts, and that's battling, or even just rhyming in a cypher. Again, you can debate hip hop, or you can live it, be it. Just different outlooks I guess. Nothing wrong with that.

Old Mike, good looking out. You summed up my thoughts in clearer way than I could type up. That's what I'm talkin about.

This discussion is a good example of why KRS should not be looked to for leadership.

This discussion has now devolved into the pointless "who IS and who IS NOT hip hop" debate. The irony is that all these anti-intellectual people actually over-intellectualize something very simple.

Let's use Old Mike's "painter" and "dancer" analogy. How many painters sit around endlessly debating who IS and who IS NOT a painter?

Either you are... or you aren't. It's a self-defining thing. You don't need to PROVE it to anyone. Nothing is gained by proving your status of being "hip hop" or not. Just be YOU.

Yo, ablerocks, you broke these dudes down to they smallest molecule. Excellent points made.

-Black People

I think Nas is the greatest MC of alltime. Who's better?
who has more classic songs?
classic verses?
who has the skills he has?
the poetry?
NAs>Rakim
Nas>KRS

Nas is the alpha and omega of hip hop

WHo has the longevity?
Nas Is The Goat
The God

every rapper ever should bow down to Nas for what he has done for HIP-HOP

NAs Is Hip Hop

One1

who the hell is Adisa?!? KRS getting mad at this nobody...not a good look heh.

Kris just had the oppurtunity that many artists who 'live' and create hip hop music wish they had.
And that's to confront one of these self important internet types who just try to bring arists down cos the can't create amazing and unique music themselves.
Kris was quite reasonable from what I've listened too.
So what he threatened a dude.
Waaaaaahhhhhhhh.
You have all never said something like that to someone who pissed you off? Off the cuff?
Yeah right.
Also, going on about the 'Stop The Violence' shit. How long ago was it? Maybe an appropriate song/album/movement then? Maybe not now? Why should Kris have to be Ghandi cos he once did a song and a tee shirt.
Bottom line is KRS is a BRONX KING.
Adisa is loser internet guy.

BDP FOREVER!

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud...I say call him out. Tired of talkin' I agree with Iron's post.

Top two picks for one man to represent hip hop...
1. Bam
2. Mr. Wiggles bboy/mc/writer/probably dj too!
3. Fabel

Why is this different from someone being called out in a battle? This is the essence of hip-hop: bboys, graff writers, mcs, dj's all battle (or should be) when someone steps to them.

KRS sounds like he challenged Adisa. Whether it was meant to be physically or verbally, is yet to be determined. Put them in a ring, the street, or a room and let them handle it. After that it's done. Two men battling it out head-to-head. Whether they speak or whether KRS wants to get physical, at least the two of them will do what it is that they're meant to do: battle.
Mental or physical, both seem to feel confident in their abilities. KRS challenged Adisa with what seems to be full confidence in suggesting that he could kick Adisa's ass. I've seen Adisa do his thing on the street, and I'm sure it will be fine with him if he and Kris take care of it either physically or verbally.

Keep the riders out of it. This is between the two of them.

I do think that "KRSgate" is blowing this so-called "meltdown" out of proportion. I don't think Kris literally meant that Adisa was an FBI agent, just that he thinks Adisa is a snake, like the old FBI informants from COINTELPRO. Y'know, metaphorically speaking.

I read a book by hip-hop writer Miles Marshall Lewis called "Scars..." and there's an insightful chapter where KRS is interviewed and his whole Temple of Hip-Hop organization is examined. I'd like to make a point I learned from Lewis's essay, which is that KRS is not from the Bronx! KRS was born and raised in Brooklyn! He moved to the Bronx when he made it to a homeless shelter there at 16 years old (where he met DJ Scott La Rock, God bless the dead).

Yo. Im a big KRS-ONE. Lets be honest, Kris is trippin' about this thing. He is overreacting. Truthfully, someone of his stature shouldn't even be sweating a scrub journalist like this Adisa kat.

That being said though, Adisa should some respect. Considering what KRS has done for Hip-Hop compared to what he has done, Adisa should know his place.

I think most of the people here need to listen to the whole discussion before talking. KRS-One goes back to the Adisa subject right before his ending piece at the end of the panel, and mentions that he doesn't want to actually FIGHT him, he says, and I quote "And actually Adisa I can talk to you actually in the back, non-violently, we can talk in the back and actually hash it out, cause I got some serious things to say to you anyway, but we'll deal with it like that.", followed by clapping from the room. Where is the sound byte for when he says that? I've read all these posts and not ONE person so far has mentioned that line from KRS-One.

Also, there is a difference between a threat and expressing how you feel. KRS-One never said "I -will- jump over this table and beat your ass", he mearly stated how he feels. I feel like doing a bunch of things I don't actually act on, he's just keeping it real and saying how he feels, coming off what he was talking about how rappers are more polite and Hiphoppers are about keeping it real, and saying it how they see it.

what the

It sounds to me that none of these people taking issue with KRS's "I am HipHop" philosophy bothered to understand it. They act as if when he says that he is HipHop or that he represents HipHop or that he is a leader of Hiphop he is saying that he is the only one. It's like when an NGE member says "I am God" he doesn't mean that he is the only one. It didn't sound to me that KRS had a meltdown at all...it seems it was all the other cats trippin' not letting him finish because they assumed it was going to turn into a fight as if all "rappers" are a bunch of violent thugs and that any minor disagreement is destined to esculate in to an all out brawl. As far as KRS expressing his wish to kick dude's ass, so what? Cats can't express their feelings? It clearly wasn't a threat...as far as the mocking chants of "Stop the violence" KRS has always espoused peace in his lyrics but he also has plenty of lyrics about beating fools down but of course none of these fools really listen to his albums. Props to KRS and Busy B for represnting for true HipHop culture.

>>>why should a writer/critic have to challenge krs to a freestyle? should the writer challenge kris to an essay-writing contest?

Adisa Banjoko is (or at least used to be) a rapper/emcee

no matter what, krs is and always will be hip hop culture not rap.don't confuse the two. from when he used to tag on stevenson high school in the bronx and even now with the whole adisa kat thing.kris is a teacher, a scholar. and you all know that ignorance is his enemy and that my friends is adisa kat.

i call him adisa kat cause i think he's pussy.......

I think hat KRS is saying Adisa-dude is an "enemy to the culture" *because* he wants to quantify and critically stratify Hip-Hop.
To stay with the "I Am Hip-Hop" thing, means that Hip-Hop is undefinable except at the individual level. If you don't break, write, rhyme or cut&create then as someone else pointed out you're a hip-hop *fan*. Or in this dude's case a critic. I think that KRS's attitude towards this guy can be summed up in this line from KoolKeith:

I look at your audience and fan-base/Nothin' but a buncha men/ Tappin each other on the back again/Fools with backpacks/tryin to show me their ass-cracks/Ciggarette lighter blowin smoke/On my Polo shirt/Bound to get hurt/

You know the old saw:
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach

KRS may have thrown the FBI comment on top because, like other guy said, KRS is *THE* battle-MC. That's who he is. yeah he's got a big ego-know anybody else that has shut LL, AND Rakim down? Didn't think so. So when the "Bishop of Hip-Hop" (How the hell do you get that title anyway?) starts to say that KRS is "duckin' me"....he does so at his peril. That is who KRS is. He is *THE* battle-MC "KRS don't duck nobody" you know? That's how he defines himself, Adisa would've probably pissed KRS off less if he had questioned his sexuality or capabilities as a parent. Plus he cut him off while KRS is explaining the difference between RAP and Hip-Hop (you know that's his favorite lecture)...what did he expect, KRS to be like "yeah buddy jump in here and help me explain the difference between a rapper and an MC...I'm a little out of my element."

Also in reading this dude's article :

" Being a sub-culture, Hip Hop is not meant to facilitate such things. It is meant
to absorb things that exist already and re-frame them in a contemporary urban
environment."

So whatabout the people who make Hip-Hop in the mountains of Japan? Or in the countryside of Zimbabwe?? Not neccesarily "urban"

[And I can tell you that while, most down-south stuff is rap, there's a lot of stuff coming out of here Field Mob for example, where these guys are definitely NOT from anything close to being "urban"]

When KRS says he's "an enemy to the culture" it seems to me that he is speaking to artificial limits he sets up for Hip-Hop. If Hip-Hop can ONLY come from an urban environment, and ONLY be created by re-positioning outside elements in an specefic niche, then that denies the inherent creativity in Hip-Hop. Because now that we're seeing the 4th and 5th generations/editions of Hip-Hop, you're starting to see and hear hip hop self-reference elements that are strictly from hip-hop itself.
Like the way Biggie's "Ungh" is a sample that comes with your fruity loops package. That's an instrument-system and tonal palette pretty much created by and for demand from the hip-hop community and in this case using pre-existing hip-hop elements (not an external sample).

So, the semantical debate this Adisa guy (seriousy I know I'm old and shot-out but I never even heard of this guy and he calls himself "The Bishop of Hip-Hop"??? I'd rather nominate Don Magic Juan Bishop of Hip-Hop than some university lecturer) wants seems pretty silly, and by having his focus n this very specialized debate forum, he also seems to have a correspondingly narrow view of what Hip Hop is, or can be.
He says somethingthat Hip-Hop having the potential to be a culture on par with that of Latino culture is an "illusion".That seems pretty flawed when you think about the conversation I had in the airport with a french girl who's moved here to the ATL..I don't really speak french, she doesn't really speak english, but we were able to make ourselves understood through slang and forms that come from hip-hop. She told me she chose me to try and get directions from because of the way I looked "like ze hiphop yes?" So if a culture can create that sort of bond you between two latinos who find themselves in say.Ireland' then I think it shows the exact capabilities Adisa would deny it having. The narrowness of focus and his credibility seem questionable to me when you compare with KRS...Maybe if he had an albumn. Or a nice throw-up campaign....or a nice freestyle on a mixtape...or...well something else other than a book of interviews (although it does look pretty good, I will try and read it).

I have been around the "hip-hop" scene before there was a "hip-hop" scene and one thing that gets me is that everyone is talking like KRS is something special and we should not be able to enguage him in conversation. Are we not all equal, are we not all men? Why would you think so much less of yourself that you would give someone who has sold records for 25 years an altar to stand on and not feel as if you were worthy of talking to him like you would any other man you met on the street. I have met many people from all walks of life, from prince to pauper, and have never let someone's possition in life influence how I would treat him. Yet you guys are angry that Adisa has stepped to KRS and see THAT as the fault in this whole exchange. Wake up, see the facts, switch the name around and see if the outcome is the same. If Adisa had been called out to a debate and reused, and if Adisa had threatened KRS on a public forum. Would you give a pass to Adisa?

Stay frosty,

Lucky Luciano

Fuck Adisa's feelings, and fuck the way people reacted to Kris like he was about to pull a nine.

Here'e the real question:

If Christianity can be considered the defining features of one's culture, why cannot Hiphop?

The Bible is a book of songs, poetry and stories. Unless any of y'all fools really think it was written by God, and not man, then you are starting to see my point.

Man is by nature a rational animal, we create our myths, our religions, our governments, our culture. These are NOT things bestowed upon us by external forces.

What makes me an American? The fact that a bunch of aristocratic revolutionaries signed a piece of paper laying down the laws of the land? If something as spurious as being born within the borders of a nation defines one's nationality, well then, something as exact and intentional as choosing one's cultural, in fact creating one's culture, is possible.

What makes someone French? It must be their native language. But guess what, I can give up my American citizenship and BECOME French. I can choose my home, my tounge, my culture. I can create for myself ways and principals by which I will live, and I can call that MY culture.

Adisa's stuck on race. He forgot to look at religion and language as cultural definitions. Both are constructed human artifacts, just as Hiphop is a constructed human artifact. Hiphop is Krist's culture, period. Adisa stepping to him like he did is like some cat off the street stepping to the Pope and telling him his religion has no power in his life.

To quote Kris:

I have decided to live my life as a citizen of Hiphop kulture. If you have not, such is your choice. I am not better than you. I do not look down upon you. In fact, through Hiphop I am better able to love you; to understand you; to empower you. Your decisions on life
and its meaning are for you, and my life decisions are for me. Hiphop is my faith! And how can anyone debate the reality of another man's faith? Such a debate is pointless. It is faith! And isn't it true that faith makes all things possible. You speak as if you have no faith in Hiphop...

See William James, "The Will to Believe," before I sick Cornell West on your ass.