Nas "Why You Hate the Game" (featuring Game)

Game just sort of makes you go meh

Yo, this track is nine minutes long.

That's kinda cool I guess. Sorta like a song on the second side of an oldschool rock or soul record.

this must be the last cut on the game's album.

but yo, I've had it.

I've fuckin had it.

I'm sick of trying to be positive.

All of you fuckers is wack now.

Another mediocre half pop/wanna be neo-soul, confused-ass beat.

All of this bullshit is Hiphop-smoothed-out-on-the-R&B-tip-with-a-pop-feel-to-it garbage.

weak ass plastic drums.

bitches singing.

Another so called hiphop song with NO FUCKIN SCRATCHIN!!!!!!!!!

That's like making Kool-Aid with no sugar!!???!

Y'all spread y'all fuckin' ass cheeks for anybody and anything!

Chumps just GAVE hiphop away.

Giving our shit away.

I wouldnta been so mad if this was just The Game. My hiphop expectations from him ain't high at all.

But this had Nas on it. And Just Blaze who was poppin all this shit about the music is unbalanced. And then he goes and makes some middle of the road softcore shit like this.
him and nas s'posed to be from the sun.
the foundation.

they should know better.

I 'ont give a fuck what your agenda is: "Oh, naw we tryin' start some businesses. We tryin' put on people from around our way. We tryin make sure our families eatin' "

Man, fuck that shit.

You are killing our culture with this mediocre bullshit!!!

Music - the drum - is the lifeforce for all people of color.

I thought you muvafuckas was supposed to be tough.

Wasn't y'all the ones who was all like "man, if that was me back in the day, all the slavery shit wouldn'ta been jumpin off" ?

What the fuck you think is happening now?

And Nas.

Nas.

Yo, I read that primo and shawn carter said that Nas' album wasn't ready.

Well after hearing this shit, I swear with all of my being that I wish he goes back and gives his new LP a complete overhaul.

Yo, you fuckers have melded together into one sucka ass emcee: MC Average, MC Barely Rhymin'.

Yo this Nas verse was nothing spectacualar at all! He sounds just like the game!

No live rhymes or complexity anywhere.

Rhyming two words and moving on. No dope in-between rhymes. No full sentence rhymes. No phrase rhymes.

FUCKIN NOTHING!

Just rhyme two words, say "niggas" and move on to the next mediocre rhyme.

Fuck that shit!

What happened to "My composition bleeds words and weed blurs my vision."
(Nas on "Understanding")?????

WHAT THE FUCK??? Nas should know better. He was our only beacon of hope.

What happened to you? You know how it go!

I heard the same shit from jim jones. Soundin like a wack down south emcee. I couldn't believe he was from Harlem.

There is nothing distinct about any of you fuckin' sucka's new rhymes.

The only difference is y'all names. Y'all all sound the same now.

Fuckin chumps and uncle toms.

I'm done.

-Black People

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

i kinda feel your pain bruh...but at the same time....

"instead of criticizing the music / make some yourself / so we can laugh at all the wack shit you did" - hardCore

u see now that i cant respect black people. they way it seems you want the beets to remain that of hiphop from back then ... hiphop evolves man! its not supposed to stay the same! the lyrics arent as good as they could be (i'll give ya that ) but damn man you cant look at one era of hiphop and say, "thats it! thats hip hop! lets never change!"
and as for the jim jones thing ... come on its jim cant rap jones what the fuck did you expect?! and just cause he is lame you call him southern?!

no he is rhymeing like a shitty new york city rapper ( not that ny is crap but we all have shit from every coast! ... chicken noodle soup anyone?) in fact all of dipset is mediocre at best. oh and j.r. writer is over rated. i know you think our culture is being raped just for dough ... and in some cases that is true ... but damn man change IS good sometimes. hip hop will keep changeing and there isnt a thing you or i can do about it. some of it you will like some of it your gonna hate.

TruSouth,
I knew what I said was gonna offend some people. First of all it's a new day, so I'm a little bit cool now.

What I wrote above was impulsive and it's was right after I heard that track.

That's when the most shit is true. When you're heated and you're speaking from the heart.

So although I knew it would be offensive, I didn't chose to offend you or anybody else.

But I don't take any of it back.

But you know, anyway I'm cool now.

Now...

Yes, of course change is constant.

It's the only thing that remains the same. Shit changes.

But my gripe, bruh, is when things change for the worse.

Dig?

Things have took a dip. And have changed for the worse.

If production is gonna change, it should change for the better.

If rhymes are gonna change, the lyrics should improve.

Also, picture hiphop music with a life cycle (you know like, something that has a birth, apex, trough and death). Although hiphop should not have a life cycle we can chronicle events that impacted positive and negative change.

Right now we are in period of negative change.
And I can't sit back and go quietly.

Because after negative change comes what?

Death. Death of HipHop.

This is so funny, cuz last night after I heard this mediocre ass song I was nowhere near as "the peaceful brotha" as I am now.

Funny.

Anyway, if people get excited over mundane music and think this is what we have to offer then our standards will be lowered.

But, trusouth, negative change and simplistic lyrics from Nas and cats from the foundation are not good.

It's a bad look altogether.

And let me be the first to say this:

Killa Kam or "Cam'ron" wasn't always this way.

He from Harlem. And when he first came out he was poised to be one of the greatest rhymers ever.

He has since watered down his shit and spread his ass cheeks to make money.

But he know better.

They used to have super group called Children of the Corn.

It was Killa Kam, Murda Mason (Ma$e), Big L, Mcgruff and I think Coota Love? All sick rhymers.

Anyway, people from the foundation should know better and it hurts my heart to see Jim Jones rhyming like so. Although he just came out so he might of never been fly on the mic. I only just heard the two new songs. And I was like "this dude from harlem? Naw. Naw."

But nobody expecting E-40 to rhyme. Nobody puttin' pressure on Snoop and the game to set it lyrically. Ain't no MC expectations from dudes from the south.

But when you say, "Yeah, Nas on this jawn."

You expect to hear some serious lyrics.

Not some mediocre bullshit.

That's negative change.

Change for the worse.

And that's never good.

Sorta like getting paid...less.

Or paying for a hiphop album or song and getting less.

-Black People

fuck yall dipset is more than music they are the streets just keep on kissin nas, jay, and g-units dick or any old school fucka that couldnt buy a hit dont mess wit the dip and for homeboy talkin that south shit well right now lil wayne is the best thing out right now and new york is just some followin little dick heads like somebody gives a fuck who is king of new york i like the real new yorkers who aint scared to have a little fun with hip hop shit i like to dance every once in a while you know

Are there any adults here with mature intelligent, coherent input on the new Nas, Just Blaze and The Game song?

-Black People

right here black people . now that we got that hole change thing out of the way i have input on the track. nas is one of the best rappers of our time includeing big L, biggie, rakim , and yes hate it or love it ... jigga, but your forgetting this was the game's track NOT nas's. you cant expect nas to out gun game on his own track! he cant just touch on lyrics that the game could never reach... ever ! what would nas gain from makeing the game look stupid?! he wouldnt gain anything from it.

now what he should have done was he should have stepped his game up just enough that game would have to step up his. there problem solved game looks smarter and nas wouldnt have to look stupid. as for just blaze i have no clue whats wrong with that motherfucka. and i HATE floetry.

lmao at the luc longley comparison. on point, nonetheless.

^Because of how they f*cked up Smiff & Wesson's "Bucktown"?

[b]But credit where it's due, he does come through with his usual namedropalicious, not-stellar-but-serviceable verses.[/b]

Truer words were never spoken. I wouldn't quite call him Luc Longley though. More like Udonis Haslem. A solid role-player on a winning beat. But can he please stop talking about other people? PLEASE!?!?!?

I mean why is an alleged gangster, so infatuated with the music industry? These are not even really metaphors or similies, they are just mere references.

Nas is very regular on the song too. Nothing special at all. FYI, my boy who works at def jam says he heard Nas album and its crazy, straight hip hop and he doesn't even have a reasl single on his album. LOL! I can't wait. Because if I hear "show em what you got" one more time, I'm gonna earl. Thast shit is straight fast food music.

That's funny, I was gonna say Udonis Haslem but I thought it was too obscure.

I remember when you would hear artist collaborations it would seem that would try to outshine each other.
However i guess for a commerical aspect those days are long gone.
The little boys and girls cannot understand complicated lyrics. It is too much for them to process. So the elementary school DJ plays little basic records so they can hold hands and dance together. The little boys let the little girls lead them so they can be happy and smile.

I stick to underground, keep the crossover

Damn!

Word up, TomA!!

I thought I was the only one here who repped that quality hiphop.

Thank you for standing up.

-Black People

These dudes are making product that's not worth paying for.

Why should one fork over dough if MC Average is just basically talking over simplistic noise?

That's like paying to go see a basketball game or a football game and the players are not gifted.

Total bullshit.

The shit they are making is nothing to get excited for anymore.

I go in record stores nowadays with a pocketful of money and leave out sad.

Not having spent a dime.

Think about the amount of times that Kool G. Rap, AZ, Big Pun or Yeshua (from We Be Foolish) rhymes in a verse.

That's a gift and that's worth paying for.

MC Average: The Game, all of these new dudes, et al, they shouldn't be asking money for this mediocre shit.

They should be giving this shit away at urban outfitters or something.

-Black People

i dont think nas is hungry anymore... and thats when you get lazy and sloppy when you loose your hunger for the art form which is hip hop.

I got a post coming about this. The name dropping a strange crutch for Game. Like J said, he's a serviceable MC, one that's got better in the gap between the first album and the current one if you ask me but the name dropping (which is rarely employed in anything but the most elementary metaphors) really, really make him hard to listen to. He's got ideas but he's got to learn to rap better if he's going to stick around. On the other hand, the Compton track from the new album... phew. Granted the production is the magic, but somehow or the other, our serviceman manages to make songs that are a lot better than his rapping would suggest.

Just has made better beats than this Why You Hate the Game nonsense, even for the Game (Church for Thugs, No More Fun and Games). He must have been high on something very bad when he let this out the studio with his name on it.

Nas sounds a lot better on "Hip Hop is Dead." Recycled beat but to quite acceptable results I think.

Good looking out "Flint",
I just listened to the little mix you put together with Nas, Jay and The Game stuff.

Yo, I am thouroughly impressed -- no shocked by the game's Compton song.

That shit is kinda banging.

Yo, Will.i.am laced the Baby Huey Hard times drums.
Will.i.am sound like the only producer who's amongst those that are popular right now that actually knows the formula. He's actually using the Ultimate Breaks and Beats.

I'm shocked like a mug. When Compton came on all I could do was smile and nod my head.

Not an action but a natural reaction -- a reflex to hearing some dope.

I just realized I love this shit. You know hiphop and all.

Cuz I'm a sleep a little better tonight. With a smile on my face knowing that some dudes can still put a hip hop song together. I ain't know this shit was that important to me.

I'm still smiling now.

Will.I.am even has scratching on that Nas jawn.

Thanks.

-Black People

I take back what I said.

Black.. I was one of those.. HipHop has to evolve to survive.. or Rap cant stay the same to stay in the game... WTF was I on.. (don't answer that!)

What I now have come to grips with is this. There WILL NOT be a messiah for what was hiphop used to be. We are old now and its time to stop trying to out yell these youngins.

The music is gone and I think thats where is starts, let's take the monstrosity that is Chicken Noddle soup.. that beat.. is actually pretty dayum nice if given to a good MC. Also what made hiphop great was the bleakness of the people back then and frankly ... we soft. And thats just the hard truth of it all. when times are harder you put your all into something a it comes with heart.

I dont think however .. that HipHop is dying.. I think commercial crap-hop is just so big and wide it has blocked out all the light shining underneath. Like it was said.. back in the days an artist tried his best to outshine the last AND the next mc... now all we got is a bunch of thugs that don't know how to step up anything that ain't a pharmacutical product, or fast buck hustlers trying to live well. But if we get better beats it makes you think that maybe ..one day lyrics will once again come up to par

I kinda dig where you comin from, Belve.

I just got finished watching the South African film, Tsotsi. And I watched the video from Zola.

They are feeling it down there. And it seems like they are next to speak that real.

They're living in homes made out of alumimum foil and shit. They understand that a change is needed.

Fuckers here see Lebron James tv spots and Jay-Z videos in Monte Carlo and they think everything is cool.

It blows my minds whenever I see these dudes bragging about their diamonds and money and their "riches".

Newsflash, buffoon: when your people are poor you're poor. That's why white people give you "that look".

Our squad here is definitely soft. Everywhere else though, hoods in France, Mexico, Africa people catching and setting fires.

-Black People

Interesting comments peoples. I was on some other blog and all they do is talk shiet and call each other out. Nice to see some substance in here. Anyways, hip hop can never be the same as it once was, because times change. Although I'm not black, what I thought to be hip hop back then was raw lyrics that reflected the impoverished lifestyles of the artists at that time. When I think hip hop, Grandmaster Flash and the song "THE MESSAGE" pops right into my head; and that was the embodiment of hip hop up until the mid-90s. Artists were speaking on real subjects that had political ties to them; these days hip hop is anything but that. But that's where the change occurred, hip hop over time, at least in this new century has grown to be accepted by the (white) majority. racial discrimination is not as prevalent as before (although still exists), hip hop is no longer a medium where (black) artists vent their feelings through music, now hip hop serves as a means to making money. We will never go back to the times where peepz be selling tapes out of their trunks in order to make enough $ for dinner. These days, upcoming hip hop artists are probably recording their songs on their I-POD or $699 cell phone. Back then rappers would be talking bout how poor they were and the struggle, you dont hear it as much these days. these days artists talk about how much money they sitting on and what type of jewelry or alcohol they are sipping on. I'm getting sick of it, and I'd like to thank the likes of Jay-Z and Puff Daddy for making every hip hop artists talk about how much money they got and how they flaunt it in 90% of their songs. So, say what you want about the Game, I'd still rather hear him name drop the majority of the time than talk about how much money he's got, how he flaunts, uses, and distributes his money. Because when he name drops, to me, he is paying respect to those before him, those that got hip hop and rap to where it is today, where they can talk about how much $$$ they got or what kind of "Impalas" they drive (haha). So the point is, I dont know how you guys judge what good hip hop is given this time and age, and if some of you are such great connosieurs of rap (Black people? TomA? TruSouth?), then why dont u hammer out a beat with some rhymes and let us criticize you for your intellectual creativity? Alot of people complain that hip hop is recycled garbage sometimes...yet when an artist tries something new, the critics are all over them..---> Dont hate on NAS juss cuz he tryin something different.

Brian,
This is something that I wrote elsewhere on the site about a month ago. I'll let you check it out before I get back to you...

Maybe I'll aptly title it The Versace Wars...
----------------

ok I'm back.

i remember getting the dude lupe fiasco confused with ludacris and thinking they were the same or related cuz i remember ludacris had some shit in the record store called chicken and beer, right?

so when I heard some dude whose name began with L-U I was thinking it was somehow releated to ludacris or some wack shit.

seeing as how these little dudes bite each others names.

everyone is named lil something or young something

fuckers are corny.

so at y'all bruvas' insistence I went to his page and found out he's actually from chicago.

he seems to have a major release
so i can probably go to tower and

OH!! wait, yo, NYC you see that Kool G rap shit?!!

Did you peep his message at the end?? Goddam!!
He represented and they really ripped that letter.
--
Ok um oh yeah, I can probably go to tower records and preview Lupe's album.

If it's dope, I'm a head over to another record store and cop the wax.

unless somebody gotta link where I can here it now.

But that would be fly.

that's how this modern communication shit is supposed to work.

a muvafucka you don't know put you on some shit that's dope that you wouldnta heard otherwise.

I hope it's a dope album or at least a step.

Ok, back to the homie Trusouth.

See, it's not about repping an era. And that is an argument that I hear the new dudes using in defense of their ignorance.
"Ah, you stuck in the past."
"But people don't make Hiphop like that no more."

etc, etc, etc,

These are copouts.

And what people are complaining about is not their era. This isn't a "see, when I was coming up" type of deal.

Number one: Up until Puff Daddy, black music was always creative and always contained a positive conscious element.
Even NWA.

Nobody said you gotta be a saint. Go 'head. Call a chick a bitch. But let us know about them punk type police too.

And that's the extreme case.

Number two: Prior to Puff Daddy, Black music (actually all Black entertainment) always showed respect for those that came before.

Just Ice - Going Way Back
Brand Nubian - Dedication
Tupac - Nuntin like the Old School (which I like to retitle "New York Love")

Even in 2003 when Nas made Star Wars, he mentioned that he was "brought up off that Planet Rock, James Todd Smith, Kurtis Blow, Shannon Scott..." , this shows that the better artist has an awareness and creative respect for the musicians that came before them.

This way they can carry the torch and get the blessing from greats that preceeded them.

Imagine Lil Jon or Nelly taking a photo with Rakim and Big Daddy Kane.

Unlikely.

Try to picture Scott Storch or the Neptunes posing with Marley Marl.

Forget it.

Even in the records that I mentioned in an earlier post, I've drawn from the early eighties to the nineties. That's beyond my era. But the dopeness is still there.

The low tolerance for wack beats and sucka emcees is still there from RUN to MF Doom.

All of the great have respect for the shit that comes before them.

But not these new dudes.

In order for the wack shit that they create to be justified, they have to pretend that the time that they are living in now is the way that is always was.

They must pretend to know only about the shit that's convenient. The garbage that supports their wack shit.

You cannnot directly link any sucka emcee out now with Young or Lil in front of his name to Kool G. Rap or any master lyricist.

Let me break down for you what Puff did and how he did it and what effect it had and has on the new dudes...

Boom it was '94, right? April. Illmatic had just dropped. No need for me to jock that album. We know it's status. Baby Nas on the cover. Whatever, whatever.

So boom in the fall Biggie's album came out and you know the first single was over the hit record Juicy. Which was already a hit.
But hey it was Biggie we ain't care.

Then Biggie's album cover had a picture of a baby biggie. they had bit of nas. bite means to copy someone else's shit, by the way.

Like if we breakin or poppin' and hit you wit some ill footwork then you take my shit across town and try to rep with that shit but ain't know my man julio was in the crowd watching, he gon scream out "you bitin'! You bit that off Black People!" then everyone gon start laughin at you cuz guess what?

all together now, BITING IS CORNY.
--

My fault, now when they had bit Nas baby cover concept heads was like oh shit, what the deal with that?

So then we all rockin our tapes and he got the jawn big poppa on there where they bit the Isley Brothers between the sheets song.

We wanted more original bangers like Unbelievable but again, fuck it cuz it was biggie.

but another sinister force was at work here. He goes by the name of sean combs.

So then Boom they remixed the Big Poppa jawn and threw in some Versace for good measure. Now heads is really gettin sick cuz they like what's with the wack Jermain Dupri beat? Why is he rhymin about clothes and girls?

(side note: radio's primary fanbase is females 18-34. that's why all the wack shit shares chick friendly subject matter to gain radio play)

So boom it don't stop ("cuz we won't stop" - Puff Daddy), in 95 with Biggie in the forefront, Puff hit us with the Atom Bomb: One More Chance remix. New beat: El Debarge jawn that some would say Rashad Smith bit from Lord Finesse. Cuz Lord Finesse freaked it first.

But he wasn't talking about Versace, Cartier and gators.

Under Puff, Biggie was.

Although Biggie's rhymes was ill - now doubt he could rip no matter the subject - the content of rhyming had changed.

Cuz face it, who don't like pussy, cars and money?
I know I do.

But not in my music. Especially when it's forced.

And the subsequent rappers felt like to get pussy they had to rap about cars, jewelry and such.

So more songs were released in late 95 to early 96 with materialism as the subject matter. While your beat had to have already have been a hit or something that someone else had rocked on and was a hit.

Acceptance of this for beats, broke down the tolerance for dope shit on the beat side.

But wait.

So here we are in the summer of '96 and the door is open for anybody to come through who talking about being a player, having versace, cristal, or diamonds.

and guess who steps through the door?

You got it.

Sean number two.

Jay-Z (or Shawn to be accurate)

He had versace.
A beeper. Cell phones. Drug rhymes and a beat that somebody had already rocked over: Ain't no Nigga is an EPMD hit.

Now it's late 96 and shit really is on fire.

So in 97 every month puff daddy had a "remix" featuring himself on the radio.

And mase came out. Oh wait I fucked that up. ma$e came out.

shit is mad fucked up by now and the RZA tried to fight back but the wheels were set in motion.

dudes where rhyming over songs that were already hits. talking nonsense about high fashion and cristal.

so now the tolerance was lowered.

DMX came out with "Where my dogs at?" Rhyming directly over Epmd's "Get the Bozack".

Puff Daddy and Ma$e rhymed over The message by Grandmaster Flash and Melle Mel

- I'd like to take this time to point out that The Message like all Black Music prior to Puff was about hope and awareness in the 'hood.

you think that's what Puff and the new dudes talked about?

Un-unh.

Get money. Playa hatin'.

Now dudes and seeing this deterioration of hiphop standards so they are like boom we can jump in right now and just keep the subject about ice and shit and won't nobody notice we ain't got no skills.

also another thing happened: You know how if you buy a toy keyboard or something and it has music built into it when you open it out of the box? this dude swizz beats "produced" a song outta of one of those.

Everybody saw it and beatmakers was like we can get away with that?

so up springs a very talented POP (keyword: POP) producer named timbaland with a song for the late Alliyah (damn I forgot her first single)

The sound was unique
it was on the radio
he was young.

so it's hiphop right?

fuck no.

but dudes saw that and started to make their beats like him.

Jay-z connected with him.

Player-type crime rap connected with bubblegum beats equal a million records sold.

shit is ALL fucked up by now.

but wait, master p. comes out with silk the shocker.
master P. drops Ghetto D. (make crack like this)
biting (and disrespecting) eric b. and rakim's classic while rapping as simplistic as possible.

Capitalizing off the ignorance of their people, the "no limit" squad did that record, "UNNNHH" some other bullshit, dropped an album by a gimmicky bi-polar no rhyme skills cat named "mystikal" and cleaned up.
Cashing in on half a billion.

Now Juvenile saw it was easy so he makes one of the most embarassing songs I've ever heard from my people called "Ha"

Straight dumb shit.

Silly ass beat.

Horrendous "rhymes" if you even wanna call it that.

So boom now here come the neptunes.
Cuz the game is wide open and any wack shit will fly.

they make a few songs using the exact same drum pattern and clean up.

the rest is probably current enough for when you started to listen to hiphop.

This is "standards reversal". Sorta like in the Willie Lynch story how they say they reversed the roles of the sexes and made black men lazy -- living with moms, or girlfriends, or girlfriend's moms, no career havin' or wantin' --and made the women the breadwinners.

This is the concept behind the reversing the standards for Black music

it's systematic.

See manufactures need empty-headed, easily programmable consumers.
So that when they say buy or "Press Play" you do.

Therefore they have to constantly dumb you down and feed you your opinions so that when they tell you something is "hot" you jump and fork over your dough.

But you needn't be that easy. We're men not sheep.

all of our people prior to the two seans would make music that was creative and provide some sort of social commentary while having a thorough knowledge and influence of those that came before.

but not these new dudes.

So TruSouth what I rep is product.

Not an era.

-Black People

Posted by: Black People at September 25, 2006 11:49 PM
-------------------------------

That can be found under the Rick Ross album review section.

Some of your other statements are addressed there as well.

But I'll get to those after you digest this.

-Black People

i dont care who you are nas, game , jigga , whoever at the end of the day they have a target audience. can any of you guess who that is?
thats right white teens. thats their target audience! (most disposable income )
they think damn i cant rap but maybe if i can get 3 other guys that cant either and make a dance maybe i can make some cash ( franchise boys ) or let me be real gangsta on a bubble gum beat (dipset) etc. . . the point is hip hop is now corrupt . if u dont conform u dont make no green .

i now their are exceptions ( rakim, jurrasic 5 , the roots ) but for the most part thats how it go.
i dont think hip hop is dead . . . but i do think it is diseased and it needs to be cured. its only rappers like papoose and lupe fiasco that show me that its not always gonna be garbage.

the people who say lackluster beats and the "biting" of beats is responsible for the shitty state of hip hop need to rethink their critiques.

rap music is -- and has always been -- based on appropriation. from the very beginning. from the fatback band and sugarhill sampling chic, to epmd and the alcoholics sampling "7 minutes of funk" [it wasn't just jigga biting that beat, black people ;) ] to busta sampling daft punk last year.

if anything, one can make the argument (as i've done in the past), that the electronic-based sounds of today's hip hop offer less of a chance to bite than 15 years ago when everyone was beating james brown, the ohio players, parliament and the bar kays to death.

i personally find the timbaland, storch and neptunes beats to be outstanding -- the problem is that the rhymes don't match the quality of the beats.

the reasons for this are numerous, ranging from the corporatization of radio, to the rise of niche markets, to the low barriers to entry into hip hop itself (15 years ago, for example, tony yayo would've played his role as the hypeman he is and the idea of putting him on a record would've been laughed at -- the same way we all laughed when kane would throw little daddy shane and scoob and scrap lover on one track per album). nowdays these guys are getting budgets and development deals.

the sad part is that there's really no endgame in sight: anyone waiting for the ridiculously limited pappoose or lupe "i don't own any tribe called quest albums or know any of their songs" fiasco to be saviors ought not hold their breath.

Okay Konjin,
I know the climate of internet discussions is dissent and disagreeing, so I see somewhere in your writings that you're trying to disagree with me.

But what you wrote is very unclear. Exactly what are you trying to say?

Are you saying that sampling is biting so the pioneers are biters? I'm not a politician so I'm not gonna try and twist your words all up.

But speak clearly, please.

What are you saying about sampling, the pioneers and biting?

Just an FYI, what I wrote above is not my opinion or anything strictly attributed to me. It is a factual chronicle of history. Anyone can lay claim to it.

You won't seem weak if you agree or second it. In fact, you can have the credit for pointing those incidents out.

-Black People

I guess the main problem i would have is as follows. I grew up listening to great music period. I was really too young to really get to appreciate the importance of it. In reflection I can say that with confidence.
When i grew older and how the power to purchase the product...i was left with nothing to buy.

I know things change, that is way of the world...life. But just release material in which i feel your heart and soul was placed in it. I just cant stand this cookie cutter format that is what i see today.

They are exceptions, and i am sure there is some great work being produced. However there is no venue which seems to promote this. For 50 simple rhyme crap, there is a diamond in the rough. But it is getting harder to find it.

Just put it in this perspective. Kane, Rakim, Kool G Rap, PE, EPMD, LL Cool J, MC Lyte release there material in a 2 to 3 year time span. Imagine you grew up with that. Then you grow up with Young Jeezy (older than me), TI, Young Buck. While you really want to listen to what they are saying. When you start comparing how they construct their words, i dont know full sentences, no slurring, screaming and shit. You question how the hell can something that is 20 years old be grammatically better? (Give or take on that)

That leads to the frustration to listening to music today. Cause there is so much more ways to share information today. This is the best representation that we have. So all i got to say no beef and peace.

Black People,

Your post seemed to conflate bitin' and sampling and imply that bitin' is the cause of the crappy state of hip hop today. My post merely mentioned that rap is based on samples, appropriation, and "creative" borrowing (and that biting has also been around forever). The line between the two may be thin and open to debate, but it exists nonetheless.

Jacking someone's beat, like "get at me dog" did to "get the bozack" (which, in turn, sampled the stylistics), is perfectly acceptable and historically congruous.

As far as materialism reigning in the mid-to-late '90s, this may be true, but people tend to forget that materialism was pretty big in '89 and '90. anyone who doubts that need only look at the liner notes of "it's a big daddy thing" or listen to any track on "walking with a panther."

As far as image biting (which is also true about today's rappers), that, too, was going on in the late '80s (everyone and their mom rocking africa medallions) and in the early '90s when it was cool to be thugged out (even the soft-as-babyshit UMCs ditched the pastel colors and quirky rhymes and rematerialized with hoodies and timbs.)

--

For all of us of a certain age who debate these things on blogs and websites we may just be missing the point that hip hop is ultimately a youth genre. I'm pushing 30, was born and raised in Brooklyn, bought my first record in 1986 (the show b/w la-di-da-di) and have attended hip hop shows since '91 (though i really can't bear to go to too many nowdays).

I think to myself that I simply may not get "it" ["it" being the current collective hip hop landscape].

Maybe when i was rapping along to das efx's or nice & smooth's silly, pop culture-laden rhymes I appeared as ridiculous as the kids who today sing along with nelly or yung joc or jibbs.

Maybe those hideous grillz and maternity ward white tees are the modern equivalent of the cross colours shirts, legal jeans, northface hoodies and ski masks i was rocking in '92.

Maybe these debates are moot. Who knows?
--

To sort of link this rambling post to the topic at hand, we can listen the modern Nas above and compare him with his Nasty antecedent in this 55 second freestyle from the Illmatic era that i upped [sorry for the quality, it came from a worn tape].

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4O7N8ADU

Let the nostalgia continue...

i agree with the time list that black people put together (even though i am a fan of jigga) but i also sorta agree with the guy that said not all the new beats are bad. but i dont think that sampling is "biting" its just paying respect to other music . remember music is timeless . 20 years from now someone can still appreciate a good tribe called quest album. i dont think that papoose or lupe are "saviors" but they are some of the best from the new generation of rappers.

You're intelligent Konijin so I won't go back and forth with you.

I'll just concede and say you're right.

-Black People

(Get the bozack is BT Express tho!)

man, your emissing the point completely. music progresses - hip hop is a massive crossover culture nowadays, theres artists out my ass, and a few more. there weren't as many artists back in the good old days, so representatively you will get the more wack rhymes filling the airwaves. the good is still there, we just choose to look backwards to a time when it was ALL good.

moreover, why analyse music. why am i analysing what you're discussing. either you like it or you dont. broaden your horizons. if you can honestly not find hip hop music, being made today, that you like, then you dont look hard enough. masta ace is still blazing it, listen to H.O.O.D and tell me that isnt nastier than nas. sunNY is killing it, canibus is still ill whether you like him or not and would kill any old school battle rap, period. nas is still relevant when he wants to be (not rhyming with game), it wasnt that long ago smif n wessun was doing it. maybe, youll hate this, but can you honestly say lyric to lyric, eminem isnt doing it as well as the old school heads. the music kanye makes, isnt it better than what you used to listen to. maybe thats the point though, maybe im convincing myself that the present music lives up to the past, maybe it doesn't, or maybe we look at the past with rose tinted spetacles. maybe in 2020, people wil reminisce about how the game, 50 cent, jadakiss were the shit, and how little young bow wows kid, just dont cut it.

or maybe, i only started listening to hip hop in 1990 (doggstyle, chronic, illmatic) etc, so i missed all the afrika bambata, public enemey etc stuff, which maybe, was brilliant ?

and you know what, for every year since i been listening to hip hop, maybe the last fifteeen or sixteen, i can list at least three albums every year that i would say are dope, without compromising on overall artistic integrity. just straight fire albums. and i know for a fact that will continue. i hated public enemies muse-sick-n-hour-mess-age. i liked 50 cents the massacre. oh dear.

what the fuck i did not even know naz was on the fuck track thiz nigga iz stratin to sound like the game dont get me wrong the game iz ok but styll naz iz my nigga and he iz 1 of the best in hip hop but if he iz going to start sounding like game he better stop fuckin rappin right now and get back to that bitch he just got maried 2 and what the fuck iz with that tat on his arm of her n e wwayz NIGGA UR FUCKIN NAS not that bitch ass nigga 50

Yall just haters yall need to do something with yall life yall da real people that are on those wack rappers good rappers try something good they get no respect and shitty as rappers comes up and yall love da dude off..Yall jus on crack i dunt care why you hate the game a fucken live ass song i fucken love dat song yall need 2 find something else than jus hate cuz they styll be makin more money than yall..AND DATS DA TRUTH

Yeap... just what i expected from hardcore Nasir fans;Disappointment. I almost cuffed my ears listining to some of his newer shit even the "Hip Hop is Dead" single shoulda had that true lyricism we were hoping for. to me it was like an unfinished track, just too much shit missing. too many played out lines and simplicity.i mean is this a new trend??

I have been reading all your comments. I'm writing from Africa. Most rappers say that they spit whats happening in their lives right? Maybe the Nas's, Jigga's are just talking bout whats happening in their lives at that moment, i mean you cant say that J is not sipping on Cris and Nas aint got no ice. Give it time, as soon as pappoose gets a mansion he gon be doing the same thing. And as for The Game i think his problem is he's trying to prove to the world that he gangsta, other wise he aint so bad. By the way do any of you like 50, coz you been on games case like a 2$ ho on a tourist (lol).

It's not even that Tindo, Nas is starting to sound like some of these younger cats. His flow isn't persistant as it was. He's also rhyming less, more played lines, n so on. It's a big let down when you have such great expectations.I mean the message is there,"hip hop is dead". But the lyrics arent.

What up, NYC? I couldn't resist chiming in on that Jay-z video thread.

But Tindo, you gotta peep game: We are looking for and loving dope lyrics. And we expect that from Nas.

And he is rhyming average.

But wait.

Let us define rhyming average. (there was a time when this woulda been unnecessary but alas here we are)

Okay, so boom, generally a rhyme is defined is using two words that sound the same in a verse.

That's your average rhyme. rhyming two words and moving on.

example:

"go upside ya head with a bottle of bub/you can find me in da club" - 50 cent

Keyword: Average.

Now, boom, the greats would rhyme AT LEAST more than two words in their rhymes.

Sometimes four five or even 22 words (see raekwon).

Sometimes they would rhyme little words or phrases inside of rhymes.
Or even whole sentences that rhymes. Or sometimes rock a whole letter (see redman's verse on hardcore and Saigon's verse).

The average joblo sucka emcee can pic up a mic and say "I got in a car/I went real far".

But to rhyme more than average requires better writing.

And Nas didn't get his legendary status becuase he was from the 'jects or because he had a homie that got shot.

He was a legend cuz of shit like this:

"through the lights, camera and action - glamour, glitter and gold, I unfold the scroll plant seeds to stampede the globe"

Do you understand yet?
Do you see?

You see how he used FOUR words that rhymed with old?

Do you also peep how in the middle of that shit he rhymed "plant seeds" with "stampede"?

And this was on a song that he was guest appearing on.

Now on this new shit there is no such trickery.

Do you understand yet?????????????

And yes I love to see rich black folk. So yes, a smile does cross my face when I see 50 cent floating by in a Lamborghini or if I see big poster hanging over the side of building on Sunset Blvd.

But I am NOT a fan of his entertainment product.

I've ceased to call it music.

I hope this has cleared some things up for you and any others.

-Black People

Peace Black,

The game is more fucked up then ever,
I mean Nas...Is he just washed up? what happen to "half man,half amazin"?

Yo i dunno but its tru son, he can barely pull ne multis on his new shit. some of his lines dont rhyme at all. I dont even really wanna cop the album unless he has some ill featured rappers.damn.

Even G units' Lloyd Banks "Rotten Apple" had better lyrics
"The black mags and backstabs are so familiar
The knapsacks and blackbags are full of scrilla
That lame aint a killa he softer than chinchilla"

That's not even all that great but Nas isn't even close to that Rhyme scheme from what i heard. u gotta love the multis n the way that flows. If u notice Nas has a more choppy flow now.

yo black that was another good point that u brought up bout Cam, yo he was mad nice back inthe dayz C.O.C(Big L, Cam'Ron, Mase, McGruff, Bloodshed, Terror, Party Artie, Budda Bless, TWAN, Mike Boogie) he had a killer ass flow just like the rest of these cats mentioned n if not better. u can c a pattern on how ALL greats just get washed up.

but neway i felt like dropping this dope verse to reminse on what was once a good emcee: "8 iz enuff"

"Rappers be funny like flesh, cause they section's 80 slaughter, son
Talk about nines and tecs, and never shot a watergun
But Killa Kam, I get erratic when it comes to static
There you have it, a trigger fanatic with a automatic
Increase the peace that cease cause once I release
My crew from the east, we leavin at least
20 police deceased, it's the beast on attack
So make tracks, I break backs
I jack with def gats and black macs
On Lennox Ave. ain't no light looks, you fight crooks
Left and right hooks, if you front, get your life took"

-killa kam

IIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo that Killa Kam shit crazy!!

Yo you got that jawn he did when he be like:

I put the pad on the lock... with glass of scotch on the rocks... my jag is a drop with the rag on the top...

I know I'm fuckin it all up. but it was a jawn I only heard on a mixtape way back.

You know what I'm talkin' about?

On the issue,tho, the emcees that's out now is just taking avantage of how stupid the people are.

Sometimes I feel like they created a dumb audience so in turn they could market product to 'em.

Damn I miss dope rhymes.

Thanks!

-Black People

Nah i havent heard that one it sounds sick tho if u happen 2 remember more words or come across it drop it 4 me my dude. Yo but about dumbing the audince, thats funny cuz america looks at these rappers n they think these dudes lack ALOT of knowledge, but shit they the ones gettin played? crazy shit, Nas says that corporate america n the rappers fucked up hip hop. he said some shit bout how "they had a lil bit too much fun" w/e that means.

New HIP HOP Artist from Texas, DR. PROPS
Album coming soon...
Nas Is Right Corporate America Has changed Hip Hop.

Yo, I just read this somewhere else and I really don't know what to say about this. But this is Nas' explanaton.

===========================

AllHipHop.com: Listening to The Game, he’s got that hunger but he’s a new jack. A lot of rappers with your experience have slacked so how do you sharp?

Nas: I try not to be too sharp because of the jealousy it breeds. My thing is about trying not to be sharp, trying not to be as lyrical, trying not to be as focused because I feel like I’m too far ahead. Not to sound funny like that, I just mean like if I go too far ahead, maybe people won’t like it, maybe it’s me in my own head going somewhere else. My whole thing is about slowing it down, every time.

AllHipHop.com: How long you been easing the pace?

Nas: I’d say after maybe my second album…

AllHipHop.com: Some people do say It Was Written was ahead of its time…

Nas: Thank you man. I think it was after that. I started to say ya know what, I don’t want to be alone out here. I want to be with my other rap peers and rhyme at their speed and do what they do in they zone. It sounds f**king stupid but…[laughing] I’m serious. You don’t want to be all the way all the way all the way out there and then next thing you know…

It’s like what Jay does. Jay is so advanced with his flow and his thinking he gives it to you straight up like that and people get jealous and they get mad at what he’s doing. And I see it. And I go, You doing it, n***a, but you know they going to copy you and hate you at the same time. I don’t need that.

===============================
I don't know what to make of this.

I tell you what tho, it makes me kinda sad. His whole attitude in the interview and in these days in general is just...weird.

They hurt us.

They hurt us bad. Ain't no more cannons.

-Black People

i wanted to be dumb to fit in.... that is what he said right?

Exactly, man. He wanted to dumb his shit down to the MC Average status.

How could he do that? That shit breaks my heart. Maybe I'll take this back, but I hope he doesn't make any more entertainment product if that's his attitude.

That shit kinda makes me sad that he would adopt that mindset.

-Black People

you gus all suck so shut the fuck up fool

Damn, I enjoyed reading all of the comments here. I was starting to feel like I had some old ears for a minute. I know things change, but damn!!! The radio should at least be listenable, especially the so called Hip-Hop shows now-a-days , but of course they aren't because they are filled with wack.
The Game is wack as hell, he leveraged off of 50 cents fame to get where he is and now he is trying to be the menace that 50 cent is/was(I don't listen to him anymore so I don't know if he changed). It's too easy to buy an MPC and Pro Tools now adays so everybody now wants to be what they see on TV. That's the reason for so much of the wack that is accepted by them now(Not me, I don't play that sh&*^). I will listen to any truly dope/nice/hot/bangin'/tight/good/great music with matching lyrics but that is becoming more and more difficult now. I want to say f&^%# you to Guitar Center for making it so easy.

Jea... Like said, its a game song. I thing game is a bit overrated. Bit. But hes got talent. Hes lyrics... Bad. Hes ideas... sometimes good. Hes attitude.... YeaH! Hes a nigga wit attitude and thats what keeps him on the top. He might not be the best rapper but its fun to listen to him yap about everything :). Nas... He could do better.

Man, how could you not like this track? Listen to it man. This shit is one song that I can truly say would make a nigga feel better about what's going on in their lives. Not the lyrics, cause I don't have the issues going in my life that Nas and Game do, therefore, I can't speak on that. But, man, this is an uplifting song. Yall niggas just get stuck on that bullshit ass rap. Too busy listenin to that wack ass 1998 rap and caught up in it. Oh, and for yall niggas still dissin the South, fuck yall bitches. Yeah, I'm from NC. We the South. And niggas in the South know man. We don't all approve of that snappin fingers and dancin shit. Franchise Boyz, D4L, nah, not me at least. But I know Weezy one of the most lyrical niggas out right now man. Soundin more lyrical than Nasty Nas on the track. Hell, Jeezy ain't lyrical, but niggas worldwide bump his shit cause can't nobody ride a beat like my nigga. Plus, he a soldier. Otherwise, don't be sleepin on lyrical talent like Luda, T.I., and other niggas. I'll admit, I can't name too many. But fuck, rappin ain't never been about lyrics man. If that was so, Lupe Fiasco would be multi-plat. Shit man, the South on top, and niggas up North just can't deal with that shit. Give us our time to shine man. Cuz you know yall bumpin our shit too.

Doc Bitch.