planet asia says on the new Prince Paul album "i'm sick of these white kids- there i said it!" no shit.

i kinda see where he's coming from. class does play a big part in the way people relate to each other. almost as much as race does. but even if one is to make that argument, you can't discount the effects of race altogether, as he seems to be doing...i think the two go hand in hand (i don't even know if i said all that the way i was thinking it in my head but oh well...)

i'm not sure if i can put into words exactly what i'm thinking, so i'm going to apologize if i lose the plot a little. the way i see it is we're reading an interview with someone who has personally had to deal with the issue of race in hip hop, (specifically being white in hip hop) since the time anticon started putting out records and most likely before. i'm not saying i agree with the fact thats he's brushed the issue off altogether, but really does the question always have to come up? is the fact that some white people who make hip hop want to focus on just making the music the reason people get so pissed off? is the race issue so relevant that we have to give off a feeling of exclusion? if thats the case than i'm going to have to wholeheartedly agree that hip hop doesnt mean anything anymore, because coming from a smaller city the scene here is made up of many ethnicities but yes, mostly caucasian. does that make their efforts inferior? maybe it all boils down to the fact that you cant speak on something you've never truly experianced, so i'm just giving another side to the story....

Carolina:

I'm not saying i agree with the fact thats he's brushed the issue off altogether, but really does the question always have to come up?

Well, if you try to brush it off as he is, it most likely will keep coming back up, yes. If you deal with it forthrightly and sensibly when it does come up, and more importantly if you produce high quality art that gives people something more interesting to talk about, the issue will probably be less of a hindrance.

is the fact that some white people who make hip hop want to focus on just making the music the reason people get so pissed off?

Quite the opposite, the problem is precisely that they don't focus on just making the music, don't simply let their music speak for itself. Instead they make these absurdly elitist pronouncements like "anyone still doing boom-bap is a dinosaur" or "we are like a wu-tang clan for grown-ups", or the first paragraph quoted above that devalues the entire history of hip-hop music that preceded this group: "The phrase 'hip-hop' doesn't mean anything worth meaning anymore – if it ever even did."

is the race issue so relevant that we have to give off a feeling of exclusion?

I'm not sure what you mean by "give off a feeling of exclusion". But race is relevant enough that in order to deal with it constructively one must get over their defensiveness and come to terms with the fact that it will always be a factor in everything that happens in America. Not always the primary factor, but always a factor.

The bottom line is this: you are correct in pointing out that Anticon gets people pissed off. And what makes it so noticeable is that they get people pissed off to a degree that many other white hip-hop artists do not. This indicates that something other than just their whiteness is causing all that pissivity (as Robin Harris would put it).

This is not a matter of the Black community or the hip-hop audience simply saying "we cannot accept you because you are white." After all it was another white emcee, El-P, who most succinctly summed up Anticon's attitude problem on his track Constellation Funk: "Rap is so confusing/I know white rappers who swear they're more artistic and advanced than any urban hip-hop tune is"

(i'm reciting that line from memory, might be off by a word or two)

i can agree with many aspects when you break it down. the criticism and more over, the above comment of the article just seemed a lot more negative and generalized, in a "whats with these white rappers" kind of way. anticon does have an elitist stance, one that i'm not altogether into but i suppose my stance was that more of a devil's advocate. i do see the point you are making but again i felt that it was more than just a bunch of white guys from the west coast that were being targeted. sorry i dont have time to reply any further... next time.

Interesting perspective... I don't know the credential of this person "Why?" so I don't really get what prompted this person to dismiss Hip Hop all together and dismiss race issues. But I do sort of agree with his analysis of class divisions in this country due to wealth and power. And I do sort of agree that that division is not clear divide between races. But I don't think you can still dismiss issues that comes along with race (nobody admitt to it but we still have things like "racial profiling" and "affirmative action"). I just don't like how he simplified and generalized the whole thing into one. I think this sort of generalization could lead to sterotyping and predijuce. But I must say that I feel more divide in this country upon classes (wealth and power) than culture (we got trailer parks, ghettos, and projects---all of them support all types of races). I also feel that there are still ways to go before race divide in this nation is completely wiped out (if ever). Anyway, my point is that I agree in some degree about class division in this country but beyond that observation, I tend to disagree.

But I respect Anticon (even though they might sound too arrogant) for coming out and voicing their opinion even though making this type of opinion public probably doesn't help gaining audiences as much as loosing them. I the fact that off the wall opinion like this does push our boundaries and make some of us pause and think for the moment. If Anticon's mission is to make people think about what they project, then I think they are somewhat succeeding. I generally tend to take artists and entertainers opinion as is but don't take them too seriously. As I said in the begining, I don't know this person's credetials (backgrounds and history) so I can't really take this person's word for word. Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion (free speech) so let them have their shot at it, and whatever concequences they may endure... they just have to deal with it (if that's loosing fans, being booed, or being criticized).

Whoa...I think you're way off on this one. I don't always agree with those Anticon folks but Why? is right. We need to realize as a whole that class is more of an issue than race. Race is a part of the equation....but people mistakenly make it the whole issue.

Chew on this...during slavery times Blacks were enslaved and poor whites in the South were so poor that there are stories of them eating clay and such. The rich whites called the blacks "niggers" and called the poor whites "crackers" (because as legend has it, they sat on cracker barrels all day waiting for work).

See...it has always been about poor vs rich, haves vs have-nots. Race is in the mix but that's not the whole story.

I'm about to blog a story in the new york daily news about the teachers union suing the Dept of Education over racism. If you read the article you'll see that they would be better off making a claim of "classism" than "racism"

I'm rambling a bit but I hope you guys understand my point.

Madison:

Whoa...I think you're way off on this one. I don't always agree with those Anticon folks but Why? is right. We need to realize as a whole that class is more of an issue than race. Race is a part of the equation....but people mistakenly make it the whole issue.

I never disagreed with Why? on the importance of class, he is quite correct on that..until he uses it to dismiss race. I agree it is a mistake to make race the whole issue, and likewise it is a mistake to make class the whole issue, which is basically way he is doing here.

Chew on this...during slavery times Blacks were enslaved and poor whites in the South were so poor that there are stories of them eating clay and such. The rich whites called the blacks "niggers" and called the poor whites "crackers" (because as legend has it, they sat on cracker barrels all day waiting for work).

If you mean this to suggest that poor whites in the antebellum south had an experience comparable to slavery, I would beg to differ. Slavery involved far more than simply getting called names and having nothing to eat. A great deal more.

I'm about to blog a story in the new york daily news about the teachers union suing the Dept of Education over racism. If you read the article you'll see that they would be better off making a claim of "classism" than "racism"

Their approach to protesting these cuts is definitely debatable, although I won't dismiss it outright before hearing their side in more detail.

See...it has always been about poor vs rich, haves vs have-nots. Race is in the mix but that's not the whole story.

It, if by "it" you mean the structure of our society, has always been about both class and race. Both have shaped our world in more ways than we could ever fully document, and both are intricately intertwined with one another, in more ways than we could ever fully untangle. When judging any particular issue, we need to be fully aware of both and take care in judging how each one factors into the situation. In particular instances one may be more important than another.
But making blanket statements to the effect that "life in America is about A not B" is always a mistake, no matter which of the two you are dismissing. This is the mistake made by Why? in this interview, a mistake that is acutely troubling given the context in which he makes it.

What an idiot. Anticon just pisses me off, and their music bores me to tears. In America, you can't separate race from class, because the two are always interacting. In attempting to say "well, we're just some non-black people who are here to advance rap music, but I don't see what color has to do with it", he's missing the whole point. In fact, he's even trying to deny that "hip hop" has any meaning whatsoever. Does he think he's a musician? I think you'd be hard-pressed to call Anticon anything but pretentious, pseudo-advanced but actually trite and boring bullshit. They represent everything that's wrong to me about white, underground rappers. And I don't mean to say all white underground rappers are bad, there are some that are quite good. But Anticon is doing them all a disservice, with their wack songs, and their grandiose, self-serving quotes.

One other thing: it's funny how the writer introduces them as "independent as fuck", when El-P and CoFlow were the ones to coin that phrase. El-P, to me, represents the flip side of Anticon, a white artist who actually respects hip hop culture and is trying to advance things (and does a good job, especially as a producer). Yeah, his tracks sound very different, and his rhyme style too, but he doesn't try to deny the role that race plays, especially in hip hop. And he doesn't disrespect the history of it either, or the meaning of the term.

I was thinking and I thought that Anticon sort of reminds me of those "Anarchists". The "Anarchists" which I'm speaking of is those ingnorant white suburban brats that has nothing to do but bitch and moan about everything in this world and blames everything on everybody but themselves. Spreading awareness is very good thing, but how Anticon phrases things makes me feel that they are being arrogant and on high horse. I'm not into Anticons as a whole but I do like Sage Francis. But I still don't understand why they are stating "The phrase 'hip-hop' doesn't mean anything worth meaning anymore – if it ever even did..." because no matter how they look at it, they are doing hip hop. They should at least respect the fact that they probably won't be doing what they are doing now if there were no hip hop at all.

Well, I agree that his dismissal of race is disturbing. I don't think that being white makes anyone less 'true' in the world of hip-hop anymore. However, he seems to feel an inferiority complex when it comes to Hip-Hop, and to balance that he equates himself and his peers to minorities in their own right. This is probably fairly false. To suggest that 'a number of people of European descent have a great deal of wealth and power' is pretty false. A small percentage of people in general have this wealth and power. However, to suggest that whites that do not have it are not still in a more advantageous position (relatively) in society is erroneous.

Bottom line, Why? is not a minority though he seems to think he is...thus giving himself a veil of validity that he really doesn't need.

Witness:
"So eight lower middle class kids of European and Middle Eastern descent happened upon each other's music and felt related? Is that a bad thing? I don't think so..."

It's the badge syndrome that white hip-hop artists feel they've got to have. Truth is, in hip-hop music, it shouldn't be necessary.

my .02,

Martay

Re: "the lines are too blurred" -- When was the last time a white got pulled over for driving a nice car & wearing a mullet? We're so race conscious in this country we can tell what color people are from the sound of their voices on the telephone. I live in a city where whites who think they're alone no longer use racial slurs, they just whisper the words "Black" and "Arab" in the midst of a normally spoken sentence. They still say "poor white trash" out loud.

haven't read all the comments on this page, but we all know that why? isn't white, right?

I find it funny that why? can disregard the race issue and take heat but sadat x can say, "I'm not racist, I'm just pro-black" and get props. Not to mention that ridiculous planet asia quote posted earlier.

Sadat X can say I'm not racist, I'm just pro-black because the definition of racism is prejudice plus power. You cannot be a racist without the power to exercise your prejudice, otherwise you're just a bigot. Historically, whites have held the power to discriminate against blacks because the majority of economic power was concentrated in the white community. Go back to the beginning: the reason race is an issue is simple. Blacks were easy to enslave because they were separated from their homeland, their culture, their support group and pitted against each other based on those very same factors; but more important, they were easily recognizable by their skin as different from whites. White people could come to America from any European nation and within a generation, blend into the melting pot. Blacks have never had this luxury. Our hue was turned into a class-identifier. This is why the issue of class and race have such an incestuous and intertwined role in our society. One that continues to this day, but occupies our unconscious assumptions about the world. Because it is unconscious, we assume it has disappeared or is irrelevant. But that is a mistake. Nightmares always happen while we sleep.

Hip Hop has evolved to be the most phenomenal youth counter- culture this empire has every seen, we have kids that rhyme in various languages!, they opened up an Def Jam in Japan and Germany... blah blah blah. F that intellectual analysis of this shit, it ain't authentic unless those who hold actual authentic credit give it authenticity. Planet Asia is praised as an Dope MC because the muscians with actual skills salute his talent. DJ Premier is considered the supreme being in the production field because every Dope MC has chosen him.
Now let's look at Antikkkon, not one person outside the white upper- middle class and several confused Japanese buyers even stand their music. They're shit makes me uncomfortable. It ain't abstract, it's bullshit. THese brand new white and asian collage Hip Hoppers need to take some B- Boy 101 classes and stop supporting this wanna- be art- fag shit.

The simple fact that you said "art-fag shit" shows simple-mindedness and the sad state of this bullshit hip hop culture. As long as Nelly is selling albums to third grade girls, hip hop is dead. EL-P is only underground because he saw the direction the movement was taking. He could easily be signed with Rawkus and making a video on an mtv special.

How can any of you deny the talent of anticon? Sage francis anybody? Buck65, Sixtoo? Anyone of average intelligence can see the rhyming skill of these artists, and beatsmiths like Nosdam, Jel, and controller7 know how to complement the styles. So all of you shut your loudass internet mouths.

"william howard taft is underground."

Racism is the primary vehicle by which classism plays itself out for people of color, if you are talking about institutionalized racism. But racism goes deeper than just classism. Psychologically speaking, it makes a lot of white people feel good about themselves to call a black person a nigger, and people often fear the unknown. Racism will not disappear simply by changing social economic conditions. It is rooted in our country's attitudes and often operates out of fear. Yes it was developed as a means of dividing and conquering the masses. But, it is so ingrained in peoples' attitudes that even those of us who consider ourselves to be in opposition to racism hold racist views that we have not stopped to question and attempt to eliminate. Racism has festered and been perverted in this country for so long that it is indeed the biggest problem facing people of color. A conscious effort has to be made to eliminate racism holistically on various fronts, from the way we do business to our society's attitudes.

This brings up an interesting question in my mind: Is there a place in hip-hop for a middle-class white kid from the suburbs?

How can anyone honestly say that Anticon depleats the hip hop culture, when it doesnt effect anyone elses style it is simply streching the boundaries for the hip hop genre and making less room for retarted hard ass repeats who's styles are trite wholisticly and get in because who they know and not what they know (its only your own loss to continue supporting those illiterate G rappers who rhyme shitty about some exagerated movie they think theyve been through) Guns Drugs Bitches and Money theres a media full of mainsteem rappers sharing the same notebook!

blah blah blah...
so many intelligent and ignorant comments made. what a melting pot we are here in internet land...

Lemme add to the mix:

FORGET about attributing the "problem" of modern american culture or whatever we're talking about now to either CLASS or RACIAL profiling. In my humble opinion, the problem arises from any STEREOTYPES still used as blanket statements by anyone.
The only way we're going to get over this horrible hump of racism, descrimination, and the like to is realize that it is impossible to pass judgement on any single person simply because they share SOME CHARACTERISTIC with what can be construed as a group.
Our differences are what make the world great, and they should be celebrated. All these lines being drawn between race, creed, etc. only further separate what should be a unified collective sharing and learning from each other.

I know I sound idealistic, but DAMN.

And I think Mos Def said it best but I'll paraphrase cause I ain't got the album on me:
"Hip hop is not some giant living off in the mountains somewhere that we don't see and feel. Hip hop is here, now, and constantly moving and changing. WE ARE HIP HOP."

Good and Bad are objective opinions. But all of what everyone construes as either makes up what is our reality in every vein. Hip Hop is Anticon is Rawkus is Def Jam is P-diddy is Rhymesayers is Solesides is Project Blowed is German is Japanese is Israeli is whiteblackbrownyellowwhatever.

Our differences should be bringing us together, not pushing us apart. Even if we agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned Truth is pretty relative these days too.

And let's not forget that this is a journalistic piece and Why? was just giving his opinion on the spot. This doesn't mean it should be discounted completely, but it shouldn't be treated like it was a prepared statement.

I guess that's all.
check out my music:
www.brokemc.com

.onelove.

this is an interesting topic for discussion. i just spent about 15 minutes reading through all the comments. everyone has great stuff to say. its definitly safe to say whether were fans of Asia, Anticon or Nelly we all love this hiphop shit enough to sit in front of computers and speak our minds.

i guess i'll add my two cents by saying that on this topic im just not sure what the fuck to say. i'm white, i'm not rich and i'm not poor but i love hiphop and if i've learned anything about this culture over the years is that this shit is huge... its worldwide. We need to realize the amount of power hip hop has nowadays and that it is far from dead. don't mean to be goin john lennon on all you folks but imagine... we could just humble ourselves enough to realize that no one person has the answers to all these questions but together we can. hiphop has the ability to really change the world right now and intolorance of eachother's opinions and thoughts is hindering the culture. I could ramble on for days so i'll stop. i'll just say that none of us are Kool Herc, Theodore or Flash so we just need to humble ourselves.

I've been to more than one third-world country where in the little shitty cantinas drunk jackass American sailors dance with prostitutes to 50 Cent. That stripclub booty-clappin chachingy bling bling stuff has it's place in the world (namely in sex-business places like that, where its whoredom fits right in), but if you want to get mad at someone misrepresenting HipHop, those are the guys who should be at the top of your shitlist. I think they aren't so much of a target though because they're all black - and as long as they're blacks making "black-music" then "that's Hiphop" and it's okay. If I were black, I'd be pissed at them not only for misrepresnting HipHop, but for misrepresenting my race, because they do nothing but support the ugly stereotypes that make it hard for even the most well-meaning people to be without racism. The black urban culture is what birthed HipHop, and you've got to give credit for that and never forget it, but we all know it's really more than just the ("all the ho's say ho") block-party music. I fell in love with HipHop through innovative outsiders like Beck, and the Invisible Scratch Pickles, who understood its greater potential. After that I educated myself about the past's great originators and the whole old-school history and five elements of the culture, and really, I love that too. But as much as I love it, I've never been able to be part of a local scene of others because to be considered a b-boy it always seemed you had to dumb down your speech and use stolen black slang and cuss alot. Namely, to imitate the poor uneducated black people that originated the music. Acting HipHop = acting Black = acting Ignorant?? if HipHop culture is to be more than that, people have to be unafraid to move it out of the ghetto, if you know what I mean. White rappers need to not be hijacking HipHop, but if they know full well where it came from, I can only give them props for out of love trying to elevate the Art.

Damn. Good topic.

Umm...
there are tons of elitist black hip hoppers? Missy, Joe Buddens, saying hip hoppers not creative these days, Jay-Z saying he was dumbing down to his audience) etc--backpackers saying gangsta stuff is stale, other people saying backpackers are conformist and stale themselves. Kool Keith, EVERY Cd he has done for like the past 6 years+ has always had tracks, his whole thing is about how conformist rap is and how he's truly original and everyone is stealing his beats, rap, etc.
I don't get it, are you saying Anticon are elitist because they think rap's getting stale or are you saying that they are elitist because they think rap's getting stale AND because they're white?
Then someone said it would get noticed less if Anticon made better music--but if Anticon said this arrogant stuff and made bad music (I've never heard it), why would they get any press at all?
If they're arrogant, or if they make bad music, or if they're white...it's hard to really get to your argument because these are such different issues I feel which people will have strong reactions to. So it kind of comes off like, just because they're white they have more obligations than black hip hoppers, which I don't know if this is your argument, but that would be a pretty questionable argument if anyone did make it.
Because it shouldn't matter one way or another what race invented something, or who innovated it or what race originally did it the best, because that argument could be used against any other race in any other area, like, oh, race x is and has been the best in academics, so race y are frontin' when they try to excel in this academic stuff. Life is about change, and look at say the hippies or civil rights activists or beat poets--just because your elders or the originators did something doesn't mean you have to agree with it if you think it's stale and want to make change, and it should be perfectly valid. If you think a new line of cars or baseball is getting stale, why not be able to say that and try to make your own version of it without having to bow down in honor? I think expecting white hip hoppers to have extra obligations over black hip hoppers is, like, so old. That's like, if Tiger Woods wasn't amazing but still wanted to play golf or innovate in golf and white people were like, man, Tiger thinks golf is stale, he's arrogant, he's got to bow down and appreciate golf's origins, golf's WHITE origins, etc. I mean, I bet people WOULD say that if Tiger weren't amazing at golf, but that wouldn't make it any less wrongheaded or stupid. No one race owns golf, hip hop, etc to the extent that someone of a different race can't say it has gotten stale and they want to innovate. Anticon, Eminem, El-P, Rick Rubin, Beastie Boys, etc., Rick Rubin helped Run DMC innovate--Beastie Boys' liscense to ill helped define 80s hip hop--Japanese people made Technics and Roland and everything, oh wait, but hip hop's black...blah blah blah...so they're white, big deal, whatever. When black hip hoppers talk about hip hop being conformist or stale, well, why can't white hip hoppers?

Many good comments were made, and some not so good. But so what...
First things first, hip-hop is a culture first and a form of music second. The first topic that I'd like to address is that of race. I am an African American male and this topic of race will not be looked upon from jaded eyes but merely the truth, or at least my truth. The article above sited one of the members of the "hip-hop" group saying that the racial line is blurred. This could not be further from the truth...racism is just as prevalent today as it was during segregation. The difference today is you never know how people of a different race really feel about you because it is all kept a secret. No one from another race shouts, "Hey, Nigger!" The line is still there, many try not to see it...but it's there.
The second topic i'll touch on is hip-hop. It's more than just who invented what at what time. Over the years so many races have contributed, it's beautiful. As for the music, as far as MCing later coined Rap is concerned...in the beginning it was never really about the beats. Lyrics were key, as when battles took place, the beat would change many times and cats would spit no matter what was playing. It was all about creativity and competition. Nowadays you talk about someone you get killed, but that's another story. Lastly, I do take pride in knowing that it was African Americans that populated NYC (BX and BK) that started and formulated hip-hop. A place and time, couple with the feeling of love, where kids with no formal dance training, no english poetry classes, no music structure education, and no art classes could shock the world. And it takes love to come home from school everyday and practice for 2 hours on whatever element you choose, to be the best not for bragging rights alone (they help, lol) but because you love the reactions of those around you.

I'm so tired of white cats acting so damned brand new..waxing philosophical and shit. Anticon is wack

i don't see this as racist and this article is simply good ol fashion muckracking. also why? isn't even white, he's middle eastern. a lot of the pretense of anticon people have mentioned such as "boombap for dinosaurs" and "wutang for adults" was often said tongue in cheek but then taken out of context through the wonderful power of the internet. people are still givin them crap over "music for the advancement of hip hop" and "hip hop for advanced listeners" but i mean that was made so early on and , when they were younger more idealistic and trying to rebel against the art form of hip hop. if you actually read recent interviews they often mention how they acted immaturely early on in thier music..the last interview with alias he talked about how the name itself "anticon" doesn't mean to him or the other members of anticon what it initially meant, that they don't care about trying to change things and rebel but instead just want to make music. there is a lot of trouble with context in these sorts of things, taking out one section of an interview posting and labelling it as some sort of testament to how all of anticon is racist. these "troublesome" passages are more just something for you to blow out of proportion and throw a fit over. i'm from brooklyn, i moved to jersey when i was a kid. i am of mixed race. my mother is german and my father is puerto rican and haitian. i've been listening to hip hop since i was about 8. i'm a big fan of anticon. i'm big fan of wu-tang clan. i think "moment of truth" is an overlooked classic and so is "it was written". the twista album really suprised me with how good it is. i can't wait for the new illogic album. sole's last album "the new human is illegal" is one of the best albums i heard in awhile. speakerboxxx is better than the love below and aquemini is one of the best hip hop albums of all time. music doesnt need to stick to the bare bones and basics to still be considered what it is. sometimes anticon makes hip hop and sometimes it just references it. i'd pick an anticon release over the latest 50 joint any day. some of you folks are just silly ^_^

Hi. My name is Andrew, and I make music with Yoni, and am what you might call an Anticon "affiliate". Normally, I'd shrug this sort of thing off, but to deem someone a racist is a pretty heavy thing, and when it happens to one of your dearest friends who you know to be nothing but thoughtful, kind, open-minded and certainly not a bigot to any degree... I get a little defensive, I suppose.
What I am having trouble with is the assertion that Yoni is dismissing race altogether- he is not. Nor is he naive enough to do that. He merely stated, that on a personal level, he sees hip-hop as being on the same trajectory with gloss-country and shit-rap-jock-rock- manipulated by the same corporate machine that drives most "info/tainment" here in the USA; that racism has been and is still very much here and at play, and is still thriving because said machine is running at full speed, preserving the status quo. He then goes on to explain just who, for the most part, the haves and have nots are in this country, but also adds that there is more to the situation than can be summed up easily in "black and white" terms.
I think Anticon encourages people to think not on such polarized terms, but on more human terms. Humans are very complex and are a whirlwind of contradictions and confusion and vulnerabililty. Anticon makes music with an honesty that reflects this, and this is why they strike such a nerve with people. They don't speak in platitudes or bumper stickers and if they do, the bumper sticker only lasts 5 minutes and then gets torn off, replaced by another one.
Lately, I have had organized religion on my mind a lot. I am angry at religion right now. I am angry at people who are convinced that their god is the right god, and anyone who doesn't believe the same is 100% wrong, and are prepared to kill, die, harm, abuse, oppress, disrespect or disregard for this reason.
I see a lot of parallels between hip-hop and any major organized religion. All have thier gods, their scriptures, their prophets, their commandments, their laws- and all of those have wide-ranging and infinite interpretations that different people with different personalities, upbringings and resources bring to them. Hip-hop has its fundamentalists and its reformers, and everyone in-between. An example of this comparison- I am a proud Jewish person,and I also think that Ariel Sharon is a fucking maniac. I have studied and practiced hip-hop, but I don't want to be defined/ confined by that. I first and foremost define myself as a human being on planet earth. Yoni feels the same, and I think this is what he was trying to express. Furthermore, I don't think that by questioning what hip-hop means or has become, Why? or Anticon are disrespecting the art form at all. On the contrary, I think it is the highest form of tribute and respect to question art of any kind, in order to encourage dialogue and new perspectives (See De La Soul "Take it Off"). If no one does this, the art becomes self-congratulatory and stagnant. And to insist that Anticon stick an asterisk by whatever they do/ make/ say/ think, to make sure they acknowledge that what they are doing has some roots in hip-hop, is a form of artistic suppression. It is the polar opposite of the irreverance that makes so much of hip-hop/ rap music so fucking great.

Good or bad, there is no one definition of hip-hop anymore: Eminemurder Inc. can be described as hip-hop, Planet Asia can be described as hip-hop, Anticon can be described as hip-hop, a 50 Cent faceplate for your cell phone could be described as hip-hop, Marines in Iraq listen to hip-hop to get their adrenalin going, the homeless guy walking down my street shouting 2Pac lyrics, Jay-Z buying the New Jersey Nets, Dead Prez in an Ecko ad, me listening to Freestyle Fellowship at age 14 on my paper route in St. Louis Park MN, Sprite "Remix", Rammelzee, Snoop Dogg, MF Doom, Fred fucking Dirst, REAS having a TV show, ESPO in a Reebok ad, Digging through disgusting moldy records at garage sales, Justin Fucking Timberlake, The Shape Shifters, De La Soul and PE changing the world, Insane Clown Posse, Nelly's chiseled torso, Allen Iverson, Atmosphere, Buck 65, Chingy, this website, Har Mar fucking Superstar, Gang Starr, Beck, Urban Outfitters, Yo MTV Raps trading cards, Bonecrusher, El-P, US-3, Kid Rock, Busta Rhymes in a Mountian Dew ad, the clothes I am wearing today, teenage attention spans and speech patterns...hip-hop is, for better or worse, responsible for all of these things.
Hip-hop is an idea created by humans, and like all ideas created by humans, will over time mutate, transform, eat itself alive, re-invent itself. And as much as we all want to claim hip-hop as "our own", with our own personal definition- sorry folks... that ship has sailed...

Anticon is hip-hop is punk rock is folk is people is humans is life is death.

ps.
It's not easy to do 10,000 interviews and be absolutely articulate, perfectly-spoken and well-reasoned every single time.

It's easy to label people things, especially when others have labeled them that before.

Sorry to rant.

andrew broder/ fog/ hymies basement

I ain't saying that there is no racism in CUBA obviously there is & most of which is based on class before skin colour.

But in the field of music specifically hip hop
it's real hard to find. Unless it's mimicked attitudes from the US.

It's a beautifull beautifull thing.

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This is a great argument, let me try to put my 2 cents in. I feel that Hip-Hop as it stands now is the new Rock and Roll so it has to be looked at the same way. Just like there was Punk Rock, Progressive Rock, Soft Rock...you have Hardcore HipHop (50Cent, Gangsta), Soft/Soul Hip Hop (Common, Lil Brother), Country HipHop (Southern,Bass driven hiphop like Boo Ya Tribe) , Progressive HipHop (Madlib, El-P). But its all derived from the culture that started in New York (and was influenced from Jamaica and Reggae Dub) in the 70s and that lives on today...Hip-Hop. As far as Anticon, I think they are tired of the general population thinking that Hip-Hop is just the teenie-bop stuff you see on mainstream american music channels. The class thing they are talking about is also true in a sense. People of the ghetto are not just black, they are from all races. Its the same everywhere you go: in South America the rich hate the poor and viceversa. They call the poor indios, or indians, and they think they are cool cause they have Mtv or whatever. In asia, there is a snobby attitude against the indiginous as well. Its not just the states. My parents are racest as f_ck to alot of people and they are immigrants...it pisses me off! They try to act like its not to be taken serious, but its just so ignorant. And have you heard kids today they talk more racist than ever...stop the hate!!!

As far as hip hop goes, i don't care that much that white people are doing it... but i just loved it better when most of the artists doing it were more sincere.
However, I think a lot of white kids fool themselves into thinking they can identify with it and throw on a jersey, tilt their ballcap and walk with a fake limp and talk with pouty lips.
Rap in 2004 is insincere if anything.. every 15 year old kid wants to either be a thug (eminem) or wants to art-rap and make everything go over your head (anticon)

Scott:

"racism is something whose driving force is almost entirely self-perpetuating these days"

"almost entirely self-perpetuating?" I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you suggesting it is perpetuated by those who claim to be victims of it?

"anticon is WAY, WAY ahead of most hip-hop i hear coming out these days. nothing against recent production, anticon has just taken things to a new level. "

I find this assertion laughable, but to each his own I suppose. De gustibus non est disputatem..

"the fact is, they're completely original and thought-provoking...the way hip-hop SHOULD be. so to label them as "white" hip-hop tends to section them off into some sort of "special" group, from which you might expect less..."

First of all the word "fact" has no place in this conversation.. Neither your assessment of their actual music or mine has anything to do with facts, only taste. Secondly, the problem is it's these artists themselves, and their supporters, who "section them off" with these grandiose claims of "advancing" hip-hop to a "new level" and so on. Reportedly the Anticon artists themselves have backed away from such claims, and their fans would do well to follow suit (not that most of their fans ever went there in the first place, to be fair).

anticon are stale and wack and not half as innovative as they or their fans think they are, and if they're going to go around making ridiculous comments like "The phrase 'hip-hop' doesn't mean anything worth meaning anymore – if it ever even did...", then neither they nor their buddies should be surprised at the hostility they incur.

With all of the issues going on in the world I seriously think that Anticon wouldn't be on that list. For christs sakes they suck and they shouldn't even have the right of being mentioned as a representation of the white race. I'm white myself and I'm just so sick of hearing this and that about someone's color. I guess its because Americans love drama and they forever need something to overanalyze. Love yourself and worry about other things!

"With all of the issues going on in the world"

you ever listen to sole?

more than class,color,culture or coast, hiphop is about the realness.why do we always hash over the trivial issues(such as the aforementioned four) and discuss the relevance of anticon lyrics in today's society? you do listen to each song at least 50 times repeatedly, right?

You'll notice all the folks people cite with regards to anticon's worth as music creators, Sage Francis, Sixtoo, Buck 65, and Brother Ali all dissasociated themselvs with anticon a good while ago. All claiming elitism, amongst other things. And they KNOW them.

Also, punk was about anyone being able to make music, not the SOUND of the music. It was that anyone could pick up a cheap instrument at a boot sale, and make a racket with it. Hence the new punk, an actual revolution, is people using stuff like Fruityloops on cheap, stolen, borrowed, school or mates' computers. And it is THAT that will render all this bitching irreleavnt, because poor kids of kalidoscopic ethnicity on council estates in Hackney are making records more leftfield than anticon, yet as popular (over here in England at least) as 50 Cent.

Why? I have a question for you?
Why?
Why does Anticon think that rambling is a plausible form of self-expression?
Why does the name Anticon mean anticonformity, but Why does Anticon conform to an all-white artistic roster?
Why?
Why do you think that you can comment on the status of hip-hop, when on the majority of your muzak, cheaploop songs, you sing?
Why do you sing, when you know that your voice is the equivilant of John Stevens using his nose as his diaphram?
Why? Why do you think you have any talent?
You have none! At least I don't think so.
I don't like to put people down, but I feel so strongly about hip-hop, i have no alternative.
Another question?
Why doesn't Anticon call themselves an Alt-Rock Label?
Why, maybe they wouldn't piss off so many people who love real hip-hop!
You don't even belong on Anticon or any record label.
Why?
Because Why?, you live off false talent, you've been living off a lie!

I am looking for an Arabic Hip Hop band, who is interested in scoring a song for my documentary.
doers anybody has a lead/idea?

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