December 11, 2003
A Letter to Ralph Nader
Ralph, listen. I'm not mad at you. You were never my ideal candidate but you were much closer than the other two guys, and I voted for you in 2000, here in NY where Gore was a shoo-in. If I lived in Florida I would likely have made a different choice, but I won't judge anyone who did vote for you down there. A citizen has every right to save their vote for someone who truly represents their beliefs, regardless of how it pans out from a cynical, strategic standpoint. And I've always been a little offended by this idea that Nader "stole votes" from Gore, as if the left's votes belong to him by some divine right, even though it was Gore and his DLC crew who led the Dems in fleeing from the left and abandoning whatever progressive principles they had represented. If we keep acting like the Democrats own our vote instead of showing them they need to earn it, there's no incentive for them to stop treating us like dirt.
So I'm not mad at you Ralph. But listen man, you gotta know when to hold'em and when to fold'em, and in this election you should really think about sticking to the sidelines. I know this is probably hard to accept, but you are just not a popular guy right now. Justified or not, a lot of people bear a lot of resentment for your "spoiler" role in 2000. The desire to inject new ideas into the debate is always worthwhile, but whatever message you brought to the table right now could be obscured beyond recognition by having you as the messenger. Basically, as they used to say on okayplayer, NGCCOT.*
I just heard you on Democracy Now, responding to a supporter who implored you not to run this time.. and pardon my Kerry-mouth, but you sounded like an asshole. Suggesting that anyone who says you shouldn't run is attempting to curtail your freedom of speech is a cheap, disingenuous tactic. I'm used to getting the "criticism=censorship" dodge from conservatives, but it's very disappointing to hear it coming from you. I'd think you are smarter than that, and I'd hope you know we are too.
Nobody is questioning whether you have a right to run, the question is whether this campaign, at this moment, would be in the best interests of the constituencies you seek to represent. You say you will be holding meetings and such to determine whether running this year is the wisest move, and I hope cooler heads prevail in that process. Cuz I don't like what I'm hearing so far.
--------
*Nothing Good Can Come Of This
Posted by jsmooth995 at December 11, 2003 03:25 PM
I don't think we have punished ourselves enough. Four more years of Bush would help push us over the edge! Then people will finally be ready for the Random party.
Of course, if it weren't for my party loyalty, I would vote for Al Sharpton. We need to put the chuuuch back in government.
Posted by: eric at December 11, 2003 08:04 PM
I agree completely. It's like the world has turned upside-down. Ralph Nader, once the seemingly selfless champion of the people, a Paul Revere warning us of the tendencies of the Corvair to look like an accordion and the incendiary proclivities of the Pinto, is now blinded by myopic ambition and unaware of his own reckless electioneering.
And what's with my man's grill. Let's face it. He's had some work. You don't look like THAT without writing el checko grande, let me tell ya. But, how come he's not straight about why his face looks like it's in the wax museum and the A/C just quit. If that left side heads any farther south, he'll drop below Michael in the disturbing category. Stop now, Ralph! Enough! It's juuuuuuust right!...He must have brought the plastic surgeon a picture of somebody with Bell's Palsy and said, "I wanna look just like that."
Posted by: ramon at December 11, 2003 10:10 PM
Oh man, if you want to get on somebody's case about Bell's palsy tell us why Dick Cheney talks out of 1/8 of his left-third lower lip. And why Rumsfeld look like he always just sucked a dill pickle dildo. That is a rictus of PAIN.
Posted by: Roy at December 12, 2003 09:53 AM
Right on right on right arm!
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6.5 millionares
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Posted by: jayboogE at December 17, 2003 09:05 PM
Please remember that the labels are your own.
Posted by: Lachman Dave
at January 20, 2004 06:50 AM
please don't hurt us any again by running in 2004& helping bush destory america,americans& the enviorment anymore. is your ego so big you can't see what he has done with your help in 2004. did you bother to take notice that he signed into effect that veterns department, that he controls, can close any hospitol they want anytime . I guess you care less about us who gave you freedom to to things you do' no matter who you hurt.
john durning,a disabled vetern
Posted by: john durning at February 21, 2004 08:23 PM
RALPH NADER A ONCE DEMOCRACT NOW TURNED REPUBLICAN
WHO RUNS EVER YEAR TO DRAW VOTES FROM THE DEMOCRATE PARTY SO THE REPUBLICANS CAN WIN THE PRESIDENCY.. DEATH TO NADER. A MAN WHO HAS NO REASON TO RUN BUT ONE TO KEEP BUSH IN OFFICE....
Posted by: LARRY HOSKINS at February 22, 2004 11:15 PM
Oh, Ralph Nader. How could you, in good conscience, treat America the Beautiful the way that you do? Announcing your Independent Party candidacy today for our 2004 presidential election is egregiously disheartening. Shame on you, Mr. Nader. George Bush has gotta go, and you're NOT helping. It's the duty of all clear-thinking and fair-minded Americans to send Bush's lying ass back to Texas in 2005. Get the hell outta this election, and get behind the man who WILL defeat George Dubya Bush! That's the game plan, you egocentric and misguided idiot.
Posted by: Miss Mars at February 23, 2004 01:32 AM
If George Bush is re-eleced because of Nader, he will become the most hated man in America.
Isn't that funny? Going from being hated by the conservative right to being hated by the liberal left, all in one lifetime?
That's quite an accomplishment.
Posted by: TACurtis at February 23, 2004 11:11 AM
Please do not run - don't you realize it might mean
4 more years of Bush? Is your ego that big that you
have to be able to say you ran? Stop the madness.
Jump on the Kerry bandwagon.
Posted by: Sally Murphy at February 23, 2004 05:17 PM
Vote for Democrats or Republicans,same stuff, system is the problem I don t believe in Capitalism and I don t believe in bipolarity.
But you know Portugal has another story our revolution was in 1974, I m Communist from PCP and I m proud of it.
Here you can be a candidate and not accept $ from Corporations, not in my Party.
Power to the People.
Defski
Posted by: Defski at March 13, 2004 08:47 AM
The idea that Ralph Nader gave the election away to George Bush is as simple-minded as the American electorate, who vote based on such things as who "looked" Presidential.
Posted by: mel-if at March 22, 2004 09:57 PM
if they self destruct it'll be anti-climatic...the Coup
Vote John Kerry, vote for the war in Iraq (he did), Vote John Kerry, vote for the USA PATRIOT ACT (he did), Vote John Kerry, vote for strenthening of a capitalist world *sysem* on the third world (Europe, Japan, and most of the global north hates Bush, but will gladly help Kerry police the world), Vote for Kerry. Drop Bush, get a major supporter of BUSHISM (he's more similar to Bush than he is to Kucinich or Sharpton), Vote for John Kerry, vote to continue two party fascade masquerading as difference: Coke is NOT Pepsi, but neither are lemonade. Hey, this is the land of choice, Fries or Rings?
Lesser evil put us in this situation. Blind adherence to the Democrats from progressives, the left, People of Color, etc. have pushed this country to the far right. WE NEED OUR OWN PARTY, but that'll never happen as long as people buy the panic, and put their hopes in politicians rather than BUILDING MOVEMENTS! (I'd guess that those of you complaining about Nader spend less than 10 hours of your "free" time organizing, and 10 hours or more watching TV. Every 4 years it's anybody but... In 1992 we got Clinton. Being an 18 year old,I was duped that time. The Democratic victory meant a war against latin@s, black folk; increase in prison industrial complex, end of Aid for Families with Dependent Children, NAFTA, etc. Regan, evil incarnate was not able to do those things. How did Clinton let it happen? Huh, he spearheaded it...THINK AGAIN BEFORE VOTING DEMOCRAT> In the short term, BUILD OUR SOCIAL MOVEMENTS. If you vote for a Democrat, fine, but don't think that'll change this shit we're living in. If you can't stomach the Dems, but still want to vote, VOTE GREEN. The Black Panthers NEVER advocated voting for Democrats. LA Raza Unida built their own party. Folks were talking about bulding a new, Rainbow party,of Black, yellow, and brown power along with progressive and working class whites.
In the longterm, we have to build this kind of peoples' party. It could fuse or come from the Greens and other groups.
FOR A PEOPLES' VICTORY OVER RACISM, SEXISM, AND CAPITALIST OPPRESSION!
Posted by: RobC at March 24, 2004 03:01 PM
This is a democracy right, Ralph Nader has the right to run even though i won't vote for him, i'm not voting for any of these parties who serve coporate America and special interest. Like Immortal Technique said "Fuck the President, I voted for Assasination",I can't believe so many of you out there are telling Nader not to run and than having faith or hope in the Democrats, you idiots, what are the democrats going to do for you, solve your problems, yeah right, let's look at real alternatives and don't blame ralph nader for keeping democracy somewhat alive and having a third party, anywhere in Europe or Canada no one would question a third, fourth or fifth party from running, if you believe the Democrats are going to make real change than you are dellusional, i hate Bush too, but i don't want a person who isn't so different than Bush, Kerry won't stop the war, wont' stop police brutality, won't change laws like the patriot act, so what's the point!
Posted by: intifada at April 1, 2004 02:54 PM
I can't agree with you. What if they told Malcolm X, "hey Malcolm, don't talk about exploitation, or oppression, or degradation,or self-defense -- we have Martin Luther King and he's doing alright and you're gonna make things worse." What would you say, would you tell Malcolm to shut up too?
Posted by: LaMetrius at April 16, 2004 11:43 AM
I don't think I'm sold on this comparison of Ralph Nader to Malcolm X. Nobody is telling Ralph to "shut up," the question is not whether he should speak but whether he should run for office, two different things.
As I said above, contorting this into a freedom of speech issue is just not gonna fly.
Posted by: Jay Smooth at April 18, 2004 04:19 PM
Jay, seems like you think Ralph cost Gore the election in 2000. Please tell me factually why you feel this way?
Posted by: LaMetrius at April 21, 2004 12:55 PM
Jay, seems like you think Ralph cost Gore the election in 2000. Please tell me factually why you feel this way
Posted by: LaMetrius at April 21, 2004 12:55 PM
Lametrius: Actually I said nothing of the sort.
I pointed out the widespread public perception that Nader cost Gore the election, prefaced with the phrase "justified or not" indicating I don't necessarily think that is a fair assessment.
Persuasive arguments can be made either for either side. I'd say the most accurate way to put it is that Nader was one of many factors that cost Gore the election. Trying to blame it entirely on Ralph is misguided, and so is trying to deny he had a role. As Alas, A Blog said:
...in the final weeks of the campaign Gore was forced to shore up his left wing by campaigning in states that otherwise would have been "safe," such as Oregon. If Nader hadn't been running, Gore would presumably have spent that time and money in increased appearances and ads in swing states like Florida. Although we can't know for sure, it's likely this would have made a 600 vote difference.
I voted for Nader in 2000, although I'm not planning to vote for him in 2004. I don't understand why so many other Nader voters are invested in arguing that Nader didn't make a difference to the election's outcome. Of course he made a difference - in an election this close, everything made a difference!
I think the 2000 election showed that the Democrats can't win a close election without wholehearted support from progressives; the outcome refutes right-wing Democrats who say that the best way to win elections is to ignore progressives. Nader's run in 2000 shows that the progressive voters (and, perhaps more importantly, progressive activists) do matter. Why is that an interpretation that so many Greens resist?
Posted by: Jay Smooth at April 21, 2004 01:37 PM
Jay you wrote:
If Nader hadn't been running, Gore would presumably have spent that time and money in increased appearances and ads in swing states like Florida. Although we can't know for sure, it's likely this would have made a 600 vote difference.
Essentially, you are saying that Nader cost Gore the election. Correct?
Posted by: LaMetrius at April 21, 2004 02:58 PM
Um, no, I didn't write that. That was clearly identified as a quote from somebody else, with a link to where they originally wrote it.
And I think their meaning and mine have already been established. I'll quote what I just wrote a few minutes ago, in case you missed it: "I'd say the most accurate way to put it is that Nader was one of many factors that cost Gore the election. Trying to blame it entirely on Ralph is misguided, and so is trying to deny he had a role"
But either way this is irrelevant, because debating whether Nader cost Gore the 2000 election was not at all the point of my post. I was questioning whether it would be constructive for Nader to run in 2004, and criticizing his disingenuous approach to dismissing such concerns.
Posted by: Jay Smooth at April 21, 2004 03:42 PM
oops! My fault Jay you are correct. That was a quote and I see your source.
I guess my problem is with your statement that Nader was a factor that "cost" Gore the election. Your statment suggests that Nader's running for President took away votes that rightfully belonged to Gore.
Posted by: LaMetrius at April 21, 2004 04:19 PM
No, please note what I said in the first paragraph of my original post: "If I lived in Florida I would likely have made a different choice, but I won't judge anyone who did vote for you down there. A citizen has every right to save their vote for someone who truly represents their beliefs, regardless of how it pans out from a cynical, strategic standpoint. And I've always been a little offended by this idea that Nader "stole votes" from Gore, as if the left's votes belong to him by some divine right, even though it was Gore and his DLC crew who led the Dems in fleeing from the left and abandoning whatever progressive principles they had represented. If we keep acting like the Democrats own our vote instead of showing them they need to earn it, there's no incentive for them to stop treating us like dirt."
Posted by: Jay Smooth at April 21, 2004 05:24 PM
Ralph Nader is an egomaniac just like most other politicians. However, widespread reports of the secretly authoritarian manner in which he runs his empire suggest to me that he would make a far worse president than either Kerry or Bush (well, maybe about the same as Bush). And, as far as I can tell, the primary reason behind Ralph Nader's various enterprises has been to promote Ralph Nader's image of himself as a caring human being when, in fact, he's just a self-important troublemaker who likes nothing better than the sound of his own voice. Furthermore, I wouldn't be at all surpised to discover that Nader is secretly a Republican and is running expressly for the purpose of getting Bush another four years in office.
Posted by: CH912 at April 29, 2004 03:27 AM
HELLO AMERICA, HELLO AMERICA, all this talk about nader the spoiler turd, it is just talk. i can dream about the easter bunny becoming president but it, like ralph will never happen. RALPH NADER HAS NO ELECTORAL VOTES, NEVER HAD THEM, NEVER WILL. IT IS THE LAW OF POLITICS, IF A PERSON DOES NOT WIN A MAJORITY ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE VICTORY HE WILL NEVER, EVER BECOME PRESIDENT. what part of this do you nader people do not understand? you will not hear one mention of nader's lack of any electoral votes on any major network or newspaper,WHY, BECAUSE THE RIGHT WING MEDIA LOVES THE SPOILER TURD NADER, HE IS THE BEST THING GOING FOR DUBYA!!! GET A CLUE NADER GERMS, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD , DO NOT VOTE, IT IS NOT ONLY WASTED , IT WILL GUARANTEE DUBYA VICTORY AGAIN!! nader is also a liar, in the last election he said he would drop out of the race if dubya might win,HE SURE AS HELL DID THAT DIDN'T HE. no electoral votes, no president,kerry and bush have them, nader DOES NOT, WAKE UP
Posted by: mark patterson at May 28, 2004 03:24 PM
GOOD IDEAS, BUT YOU ALL ARE MISSING THE MAIN POINT, THE ONLY POINT THAT MATTERS. here it is, a president is basically elected by the ELECTORAL COLLEGE, BUSH AND KERRY HAVE ENOUGH ELECTORAL VOTES TO WIN, NADER DOES NOT HAVE ANY , nader is a liar, he said he was going to withdraw from the election if bush might win, he did not and we got dubya. people who vote nader(again) are really stupid people, without a electoral vote majority, which he will never,ever have he cannot be president, get a clue before it is to late,AGAIN, also in oregon and michigan the republican jerks are working hard to get nader on the ballot, support stopnader.com, they are trying to get rid of the turd like we did in az. ,thank god there is hope
Posted by: mark patterson at July 17, 2004 09:14 PM
Oh sure, Nader cost Gore the election. Not the 30% of the normally Democratic union vote who crossed over to Bush. Sure there are real differences between Kerry and Bush, and yes, Bush is disgusting. But almost equally disgusting is how BOTH parties have become lapdogs to corporate America, VERY-VERY much to the detriment of the average citizen. Health care, child care, minimum wages, the plight of the average American had gone steadily downhill during each presidency, of either major party. And the losses are staggering. 50 years ago, the average CEO made 25 times what the average worker in his company made. Today is it 600 times. If you have any real interest in understanding the true losses, and aren't afraid to deal in reality, look for some of the speaches Nader has given at some of the colleges, like "Ralph.Nader.-.Democracy.and.Big.Business.avi" on P2P sites like eMule. Martha Stewart will shortly be in jail. What about Enron? And don't claim anything about Bush letting them off. Their abuses occurred while Clinton was watching. When the government bailed out the savings & loans, we all paid and will be paying until 2020. The politicians are always ready to spend our money, and get amply rewarded by the droves of corporate lobbiests to boot. And NOTHING changes from Democrat to Republican to Democrat and back again, only the talking points, all of which come from polls anyway. Meanwhile, we are being led down the same path as Soviet Russia went, when we militarily outspent them into their own bankruptcy. Unfortunately, we didn't stop our own military spending, and war hero John Kerry vows to increase even that. Pay attention to the possible downward economic spiral Peter Peterson (Federal Reserve Board commissioner) sees. Open your eyes and learn what is really happening in America and what the massive greed of corporate America has taken, and is taking, from us all.
Posted by: Zohm at August 3, 2004 01:52 PM
Listen. I've been around a long time - through Regan, through Nixon. And this election is the one that scares me the most. It probably will not affect me but it will affect my children and it sure as hell will affect my grandchildren. The political party system is flawed but choosing the lesser of two evils is crucial here. Nader will never win the election and would benefit America more by just expressing his opinions and quitting the candidacy act. Look the Democrats don't own the votes. But voting Democrat over Nader or Bush will help you progress towards your goals of a less corporate America and more humane world more. Thats what it comes down to. When you vote, keep in mind not WHO owns the votes but the direction your vote will take for America.
Posted by: OldNDull at August 21, 2004 06:43 AM
here are some fun facts, iraq war is now 136 billion and counting, our debt is now 6 trillion and counting.you can talk about democrats "crossing over to vote bush", voter apathy,whatever, the fact still remains, nader had and has no electoral votes, cannot become president without them. AND FOR THE IDIOTS WHO THINK NADER DIDN'T STEAL VOTES FROM GORE IN THE LAST ELECTION, THINK AGAIN, HAD NOT NADER BEEN ON THE BALLOT, DO YOU REALLY THINK NADER VOTERS WOULD HAVE VOTED BUSH,GIVE ME A BREAK, DO YOU REALLY THINK WE ARE THAT STUPID. AT LEAST WE KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE ELECTORAL VOTE IS AND NOT WASTE IT ON A SPOILER. SURE AMERICA IS RIPE WITH GREED AND PROBLEMS WITH BOTH PARTIES, BUT ONE MUST VOTE FOR A MAN THAT CAN WIN, ALSO KEEPING DUBYA OUT IS A PRETTY GOOD IDEA, SO THAT LEAVES THE DEMOCRAT KERRY, WE MUST WORK WITHIN THE SYSTEM TO CHANGE IT,SORRY, I AM 50 AND HAVE SEEN ALLOT, BUT I WOULD STILL NEVER VOTE FOR A MAN WITHOUT ELECTORAL VOTES,SORRY
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Posted by: Sachdev Ulka
at October 1, 2004 02:29 PM
Posted by: Satellite TV Dish Network at October 7, 2004 05:01 PM
Why I will not vote Nader or Green This Year...
There are two reasons for Greens to vote Kerry. First, by voting for Kerry this year we become more relevant in presidential politics. We become swing voters. Swing voters matter to politicians seeking elected office. Often called moderate voters, swing voters are actually not middle voters but voters on the margins. Marginal voters who will move will be courted. While I see no panacea for the Left from a Kerry victory, I do see benefits in asserting the relevance of the Left - especially this year.
Dean's rise was a victory for the Left. Gore's series of speeches on civil liberties and the brazen lies of the Bush administration were remarkable. Kerry meeting with Nader was better than the Democratic shunning of Greens since 2000. These changes do not count as a transformation of society, but given how little power the Left has we are best realistic about how much of role we have at this time. Let’s be swing voters this year and so that others will know that we can help Democrats lose (as in 2000) and we can help Democrats win (as in this year).
But the swing voter argument is not the best reason for Greens vote Kerry. More important relates to why we usually vote Green or independent, which is to send a message about what really matters to us. I voted third party in all of the past presidential elections to send a message to the Democrats. Now I want to send a message to the Republicans.
The message is simple: Go too far and you will lose.
There are limits to how far either party can go. Bush went way beyond these limits. Defeating Bush matters because all politicians need to know that even the radical Left will back a Democrat if things go too far. Bush's radical agenda goes beyond anything any recent president has done. Not Nixon, not Ford, not Carter, not Reagan, not Bush's dad, and not Clinton come close to the hugely radical abuse of power and threat to the Republic of this president. That's why this president must be defeated and why it makes sense for Greens to help do it.
Bush invaded a sovereign state in a war of aggression without even pretense of following international law. Bush lied to the Congress and the American people to take our nation to war. Bush used the September 11th tragedy to restrict civil liberties and to massively expand police powers. Bush used fear of foreigners to push forward a radical domestic agenda. Bush was caught leading a government that tortures and ignores human rights with impunity. Bush suspended habeas corpus, locked citizens in secret jails and challenged the basic tenets on which civil society is based. Bush engaged in massive propaganda, abused the power of the Executive, challenged our Constitutional system, violated international law and pushed an unprecedented militaristic and corporate radical agenda.
Sure, other presidents have engaged in other acts that approach those of Bush - but none have been so bold and brazen as has been Bush. He is dangerous to our Republic and to the world. And we, the far Left, must join with moderates and liberals to send a message to radicals of the radical-Right. We will not tolerate anything that approaches Bush, not now and not ever - even if this means that we'll pause from building our own Green Party. Join me in sending this message because the right to vote matters and this year we can employ our right to make a real difference for America and for the world.
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Posted by: Genowefa at November 29, 2004 07:13 AM
I didn't vote cause the Dems blocked Nader off in PA. I don't care about the lesser of two evils, I care about my rights as an American to vote for whoever the fuck I want regardless of what a bunch of shortsighted, ignorant, political for a month, mother fuckers want me to do. So they blocked Nader. Good work. Prolly spent more time fucking with Nader than the idiots did fighting against Bush. I hated Kerry almost as much as I hated Bush. Just like I hate Democrats almost as much as I hate Republicans. You wanna pull that Bush is going to ruin our country, look in the mirror. Bush is in there cause we voted him in. So whatever we get, we deserve. But worry about your own shit, not Ralph Nader's. Cause when your preaching some "third party is stealing my votes shit," and you cant win on your own, do you even deserve victory?
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