Bobbito gets points for distinguishing between "freestyling" (which may include writtens and improv) and "off the dome" (total improvisation).

I think of it as a instrumentalist (guitarist, pianist, saxophonist, whatever) who has learned set phrases, riffs and chords and rearranges and expands upon them when called to solo. When swimmers or gymnasts are "freestyling", they are using standard moves but the order in which they use them is different.

Same with rhyming. An emcee can rhyme using prewritten verses (of which he/she may have an infinite number), say some new shit on top of it , and that's freestyling. I think it's the spontaneity of the performance that justifies it being called freestyle. Like when a radio host asks a guest rapper to rhyme, he's not going to freeze like a deer in headlights. He has a library of set rhymes in his head to choose from, and the order and way in which he delivers them will be different every time.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

jaysmooth, masta ace, and ozu make great points. i've had this discusion with many people but failed to get my point across because i couldn't explain myself clearly. i think most hiphoppers under 25 consider freestyle only coming of the dome. these kids today got it twisted!

it's almost impossible to know if someone is really coming off the dome or reciting rhymes he memorized. i used t like the vibe? battles. they had written contest and off the dome contest where judges gave the emcees a topic or word to build around. at least i remember seeing that format on some early morning hip hop dance show that used to come on t.v.

damn! BAI and Ace has me flashbackin' to the slaughtahouse days... jay, didn't you anoint that joint album of the year way back??

i fully have your back as far as including "writtens" in freestyle definitions but even that terminology seems to exclude MCs that PRE-construct rhymes with neither pen nor pad... biggie? hova?...

i believe the legend goes that they didn't "write" rhymes... but you couldn't call their best work "freestyle"

I was listening as that conversation and freestlye happened. Great show that night, Jay.

I disagree though. Off the dome takes way more skill, so it should get more props than writtens. Some freestylers are so good their stuff sounds written...that is incredible!

"I disagree though. Off the dome takes way more skill"

Not true at all, as is illustrated by the failure of almost every top "freestyler" to succeed with written rhymes on wax. Both styles require a different set of skills, both are rewarding to the listener in different ways, and both deserve recognition when they are done well.

But the key part of that sentence is "when they are done well," as opposed to today's otrthodoxy in which the wackest freestyle is valued over the dopest written. This is not healthy for hip-hop. Each emcee should feel free to do whatever they are best at..

Hip-hop today has become like a bizarro world where everyone decided "Louis Armstrong proved that singing is better then playing the trumpet," so when you went to a Miles Davis or Freddie Hubbard concert you watched them struggling through a karaoke nightmare instead of playing the instrument they spent their lives mastering.

I want to see the young Freddie Hubbards of hip-hop feel free to pick up their trumpet. But all too often I see them come on our show and shy away from the instrument they were born to play, because they don't think it's permitted. And the result is that I and my listeners have had to sit through dozens of wack, clumsy "freestyles" over the years, when he could have heard hot writtens instead.

These rules have become a terrible burden on the culture, promoting wackness and stifling artistic expression.

This self-imposed ethic of "going off the top" sits easily with a generation of emcees who are more concerned with the ethics of their artform, than the actual style. Freestyle, as practiced by most emcees these days, might as well mean "free of style".

The funny thing about off-the-top freestyles is they can be quite exciting the first time around... but are RARELY worth a second listen. This is true even with the finest "off-the-toppers" like KRS, Supernat, Juice, etc.

Kids these days seem so concerned with the "ethics" of the whole business. And here I thought music was about having fun and relaxing. Silly me!

Apparently there are a lot of kids these days who simply can't relax and enjoy themselves. I think the problem goes much deeper than music. The freestyle thing is just a symptom.

Hmm. Being an under 25 emcee, this has given me much food for thought. I have prided myself over the past year or so of going off the top exclusively, and get a little annoyed when I find myself battling or cyphering with those who do not, as it feels like a cop out - but then blatantly 50% of what comes out of this shitbox at random is just that. Shit.

Well, sometimes.

But you know, it's more entertaining to me to hear a dude trip up and drop some awfulness amid a bunch of non awful pure fresh dopeness. Off the top freestyling is way more dangerous from the point of view of the emcee - as you are likely to fuck up, and thus not look, like, totally amazing all the time - and the viewer/listener, because what your witnessing has never happened before and never will again.

Like, the more you do it, the better you get. Most emcees would rather save face, and thus deny themsleves the awesome rush of dropping something totally random that is totally dope.

Which is why so many off the top raps are weak. There isn't the encouragment there for people to get REALLY good... if you can win a battle or impress yur peeps with something that you mulled over in your head for a week, why bother putting yourself through the agony of potentially looking wack?

Like, if Ace had spent all the time he has delivering pre-writtens off the top chatting, he'd be fucking Incredible.

Basically, there needs to be more distinction between pure off the top and freestyling when it's goin down. And when people ARE freestyling, there needs to be more ACTUAL freestyling, like, slotting random bits together, different delivery of lines, than this straight spitting of the same whole verses all the time.

And I need to stop being so fascist with it.

@!

For some, practice does make perfect. But others can practice from '93 til infinity, and still be no good. Why? Because they just don't have the knack for coming off the top.

But it's all emceeing. There's been memorable off-the-top rhymes, there's been wack writtens. I would disagree with eric in that I hit rewind with a lot of great off-the-top emcees, because it's not just words that make a freestyle memorable.

It's the voice, the sense of rhythm, and also the thought process that audibly unfolds as an emcee does his thing. I find that endlessly fascinating (but of course, as Jay Smooth points out, it has to be done well).

For example, one that comes to mind is someone as obscure as Lord Sear. I cite him, because when he freestyles (which is all off-the-top) you not only crack up at his great absurdist humor but also marvel at his unerring sense of funky syncopated rhythm when his non-sequiturs fall into place. That's not just skill, but pure personality.

That is just as worthy of 100 listens as a good Jay Z verse.

as much as i agree (and have to agree when masta ace tells it like it is) - i think there's a difference to be noted between cats who recite songs like zombies and cats who have memorized written that they pick and choose to use...

i find the same thing often with djs... somecats come to events so prepared (especially to clubs/bars) that they aren't working with the crowd at all. they're just doing their own thing without regard to how it might actually be coming off at the time/place exactly as they planned it - when it might help to loosen up a bit and use the same matterial in a slightly different way.

i think there's strength in having an arsenal planned out; but then being able to be a bit flexible and juggle it a bit...

as many times as ive heard cats clumsily try to "off the dome" ive heard cats sit down and spit their single over a different beat like the dj has a promo copy that says "lacluster accappella." and if that written's not hot to begin with......

if youve gotten this far, i got a ? -- anyone got a copy of the show from this past saturday they can hit me off with??? i got trade materials dangerosos. >>

Well then, I must ask this question: what do we call it when artists like Jay-Z make the claim that they don't write anything on paper at all?

e.g.: "I don't write rhymes I will them to happen; One-Take Hov, I'm real at this rappin."

I mean, they say they have it memorized but it has never been written. Is that also a freestyle? Is it off the dome?
Not trying to be cute here, I honestly want some feedback on this.

It's a written. Or, premeditated. Just cos it's not actually WRITTEN DOWN, it's still writen in the dude's brain. It was still considered, thought about, tossed back and forth, sculpted.

Premeditated.

Yuh.

Oneman: Yeah, like I said to Ace, the rule used to be "don't do a rhyme that's on your album," or more precisely don't do a rhyme we're already familiar with. A lot of emcees used to just have one extra written that they trotted out at every radio show and live appearance, apparently not realizing all the same heads tune in for each show.. I used to say the rule should be "don't kick the same rhyme in the same city twice."

BC: Yeah as AA said, the relevant distinction is that Jay does compose the rhymes beforehand and memorize them..

I like coming off the tip better than coming off the top

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The irony about HipHop heads (younger and even older) regarding battling, is that they are the same people that preach that battling has no rules but claim using wriitens is against the rules??? how can it be against the rules of there are no rules.....Regarding Emceeing, people need to understand THE PSYCOLOGY FACTOR OF MCING..as well as the use of the english language....Cos once you fully understand those two factors, you can see how the writer rhymer will always be stronger and superior than the "off-the-head" rhymer in more ways than you can imagine, and if used wisely and strategically, will DISMANTLE THE OFF THE HEAD RHYMER IN A BATTLE (but the off the rhymer maybe more witty though)...like Ace even mentioned in this interview [quote] "for most times if you REALLY wanted to slay your opponent you had to come with a written"

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Freestyling and writtens or premeditation are all emceeing. I say whatever the emcee feels comfortable with using, he/she is the artist, so it's their decision. I will say that I do enjoy listening to talented freestylers, but if you have a written that is off the chain then by all means kick it. If you are gonna show up to a radio show or a battle and it's in the same area you've kicked the same rhyme before it makes people feel cheated. Like if I had this place I regularly performed at and every weekend I kicked the same rhymes, people would boo that shit off stage. So, people expect originality from an emcee, but if you have pre-written stuff no one's heard before, by all means battle with it, kick it on the show, whatever, but it needs to be new. I really had a lot more I wanted to say on this subject, and put a lot more intelligently, but I am so tired right now I can hardly think, so maybe I'll have to come back and post again to get my points across.