The question is does the crime fit the punishment? How much damage has the Crips caused? Have you had family member die due to the Crips? How many people have died due to the Crips and Bloods? What is the reason they are killing innocent bystanders and residents not involved in their fight? Did Tookey kill those four people? Did the jury do a good job? We weren't there in court or in the fight. We just have uninformed opinions. Let the court decide.... and they did.

If I don't believe that the courts should have the power to put anyone to death, which I do, then these questions have no bearing on my position.. I do not believe that this punishment fits any crime.

Ditto what Jay said. Moreover, you said, "The question is does the crime fit the punishment? How much damage has the Crips caused? Have you had family member die due to the Crips? How many people have died due to the Crips and Bloods?" Is this guy dying for the sins of every Crip and Blood that ever commited a crime, ever?

Given Schwarzenegger's grotesque statement, he's apparently dying not just for the Crips, but for George Jackson, whose death arguably is a part of the reason Crips and Bloods even exist. I'm enraged and depressed.

Most Americans couldn't kill a chicken, let alone a human being.

It might bring us (and the victim's families specifically) some comfort to take out their revenge on Williams, but perhaps taking the action of killing him is extreme and misdirected. The man is no-doubt devoting his life to a good cause, and his death will only end the progress that he has made and his positive influence in the community. That is why Schwarzennager's decision to not grant him clemency is short-sighted.

Maybe Williams death will make him a martyr... if anyone will remember him after tonight.

I see there is still some fool who wanted him lynched because he was co-founder of the crips. That is as stupid as saying let us kill all the alcohol manufacturers for all the deaths caused by drunk driving.

"...let us kill all the alcohol manufacturers for all the deaths caused by drunk driving."

wow, what a straw man argument. you sound like GWB or Cheney. of course personal choice comes into play. but maybe if you had something like, "lets blame alcohol companies for youth oriented marketing that contributes to a binge drinking culture on college campuses which contributed to drunk driving deaths and alcohol poisoning..." then maybe we could have a discussion.

its horrible that another life had to be ended, but the death penalty is not new. it was not enacted after tookie was convicted of killing those people. he denies his involvement but can someone point me to some credible support for that claim?

if he did kill those 4 people, knowing beforehand that the punishment was death, then wasn't that his choice?

i know i'm not going to convince anyone who's anti-death penalty, but there are multiple sides to this issue which should be addressed seperately.

1) are you anti-death penalty in all cases for moral reasons?

2) are you anti-death penalty bc you think the "criminal justice" system is flawed?

3) are you anti-death penalty for "reformed"
people?

4) are you anti-death penalty in this specific case bc you think tookie was innoocent?

Capital punishment issues aside, what a lot of people seemed to forget in this case is that Tookie was not sentenced to death for starting the Crips. The actions of the Crips as a whole are inadmissable in this case. He was convicted of killing four people, even though evidence points strongly to his having been framed by one of the main witnesses.

This execution was a blatant miscarriage of justice.

In current practice, it seems the death penalty is primarily intended to give satisfaction to the families of the victim(s).

Let's say the families decided that being able to urinate on Tookie would give them satisfaction. Would the court grant that privelege? No, of course not. It would be deemed cruel and unusual. Yet it is OK to kill Tookie. That is somehow neither cruel nor unusual.

Hahahahaha, will he become a martyr I heard someone say?? Hahahahaha, come on. He was an absolute piece of s**t that not only deserved to be put down but should have been tortured before dying. Just like his victims did.

F**k Tookie Williams and F**k the crips.

He was convicted. He appealed numerous times, and he lost. Period.

Yes he did SOME positive thing while incarcerated, but his guilt remains. What happened Early this morning should be the one thing that gang members get from Tookie:

If you kill, you will be killed.

Plain and simple...I don't feel sorry for anybody but the victims of Williams, and the victims of the gang he helped create.

May he find peace now....but justice was served.

I think the fact that he still didn't admit to the crime went a long way in sealing his fate. By not admitting it, he's spitting on the grave of those he killed and showing he's not repentant. So he wrote a book, we'll read it but we'll be safer now that he's gone.

How do you figure you are safer now that he's gone? He was no threat to anyone inside his prison cell..

And how to you confuse maintaining your innocence with "not admitting to the crime?" Were you there? Do you know something we don't know? If so you should do real justice for the victims and come forward with the info...
WHY do folks always assume opponents of the death penalty are feeling sorry for the criminals? I'd rather put a monster away for life than see one more person wrongfully convicted and put to death for the crimes of others. I wasn't there, I don't know if he did it or not, but then, neither were you. So IF Williams was indeed wrongfully convicted for the murders -- as he had consistently maintained -- it would be ridiculous to expect someone to repent for a crime he didn't commit.

The facts.

1. Death penalty is not shown to deter crime

2. Innocent people have been executed.

3. The legal costs associated with a death penalty case often rival lifetime incarceration costs.

4. These countries use the death penalty: Kuwait, China, Iran, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Belarus, Yemen, U.S., Pakistan, Egypt, and Bangladesh.

See any patterns? Of course you do... most countries that use the death penalty do not have democratically-elected governments. ;)

this "makes you feel ill" that humans have the power to assign the death penalty?

Doesn't it make you feel ill that people kill daily and are never caught?

What's the difference?

Doesn't it make you feel ill that people kill daily and are never caught?

Umm, what makes you think it doesn't? Not sure what your point is..

Ah-nold is a Blood.

quote "Most Americans couldn't kill a chicken, let alone a human being"

Are you serious? americans are the biggest killing nation there is..should be ashamed..ure all the same

"americans are the biggest killing nation there is..should be ashamed..ure all the same"

I think the point skwid was making was that your average pro-death penalty American wouldn't have the nerve to put another person to death by their own hands, but they're perfectly happy to pay someone else to do it. Sorta they way most of us eat chicken, maybe if we had to kill it ourselves we'd think twice about it.

Unlike all the non-Americans in the world, every single one of whom is the epitome of honesty, integrity, and righteousnes. ;)

yes, that was my point. if we are gonna have executions, and if we believe executions are an integral part justice, then let's force all 4th graders to watch executions in history class. What's to hide? Executions are good for our society!

http://bareknucklepolitics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178

some of Tookies handywork.

I THINK THAT ARNOLD SCHWARZENNAGER NEEDS TO BE OUT THE SEAT BECAUSE TOOKIE WILLIAMS HAD WROTE BOOKS ABOUT HIS LIFE AND HE HAS STRAIGHTIN HIS LIFE OUT EVER SINCE HE HAS BEEN THERE. TO ME TOOKIE WILLIAMS WAS AND INSPIRATION TO EVERYONE BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO STOP THE GANGS KNOWN AS CRIPS TO TURN THEIR LIVES AROUND JUST LIKE HE DID BUT INSTEAD THE PEOPLE IN THE SEAT OF THE STATE HAS CHOOSEN TO TAKE HIS LIFE AWAY. FOR EXAMPLE A MAN HAD KILLED 3 PEOPLE AND RAPED LITTLE GURLS AND HAVE BEEN IN PRISON FOR 25 YEARS AND THEY HAVE NOT PUT HIM FOR DEATH ROW. AND I THINK THAT HE SHOULD BE KILLED THE SAME WAY TOOKIE WILLIAMS HAVE DIED. I TRENITY FEEL THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE PEOPLE THE SAME THING THAT HAPPEN TO THE OTHER PEOPLE. BECAUSE I FEEL THAT LIFE IS JUST HERE AND I FEEL THAT NO ONE SHOULD JUDGE A PERSON BY ITS COVER. I KNOW THAT THESE ARE RUN ON SENTENCES BUT I FEEL THAT WE NEED BLACK PEOPLE TO BE IN SEATS TO CAUSE IT FEELS THAT WHITES ARE TAKEN OVER EVERYTHING.

AND I FEEL THAT TOOKIE WILLAMS DIDN'T MAKE THEM JIN GANGS AND SHIT LIKE THAT THE PEOPLE CHOSE TO FOLLOW HIM, ITS NOT HIS FAULT ITS THERE FAULT. AND I ALSO THINK THAT IF TOOKIE WILLIAMS WAS ALIVE RIGHT NOW HE WOULD HAVE THE WORLD CHANGE IN DIFFERENT PLACES WITH HIS WARMING BOOKS OF HOW HE LIVED AND ETC.

Tookie is now a dead sack of crap, get over it. He was a live sack of crap before I iced him, so it's not like it was any big loss.

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He killed people so it doesn't matter if he had a sudden change in his life. Why should he get a second chance while the people he killed don't? You people are hypocrites and should get a life.

i believe that every man deserves a second chance, i believe that a man should not be charged untill proven guilty, as some of you's say did tookey kill those four people, well i say only Tookey knew. Also as i know from knowledge the president(founder) does not do his own dirty work there is always someone to do it for them. So what im saying is i don't think Tookey Williams killed those people and i think you made a big mistake.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the reason i think it was a big mistake is because look at all his followers, think about what youv� done to them some people praised him as god.]